Advice for a new Indy User
#21
RE: Advice for a new Indy User
I’m still getting this problem, even when making the HD1.img 7gb. Root is 25mb, swap is 40, and usr is what’s left over.
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07-19-2025, 01:25 AM
#22
RE: Advice for a new Indy User
Sounds like an OPTION partitioned disk instead of a ROOT partitioned disk. When you ran FX, did you properly tell the system it was a booting root (/) drive by doing: select [R]epartition > [RO]OT > Confirm XFS. Then Write disk label?

A huge /usr volume is an usually the default when creating an option disk because /usr/people is for home directories. So it's often the second-most common need for extra space. It's what you do for "additional" single hard drives after the first (root partitioned) drive to allocation more space to for home directories or other non-root mount points.

Did you follow a guide like: http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/6.5inst.html
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07-19-2025, 05:55 AM
#23
RE: Advice for a new Indy User
Probably is option partitioned, and no I didn’t do anything regarding a label. As for the guide, I didn’t think it would apply given I’m installing 5.3
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07-19-2025, 03:06 PM
#24
RE: Advice for a new Indy User
Considering the numerous roadblocks you have encountered and issues that have been posted it would seem more reasonable that you might want to install the most common 6.5.22 installation in an Indy and learn about all the quirks and issues with set up and then attempt to install an older OS, that has less existing documentation, less user experience, and less software available.

I don’t quite know what the endgame is here, but there’s not much available for 5.3 anyway, and there’s a reason for that.

Either way as long as you’re doing 5.3 that supported XFS, the partitioning is exactly the same from my recollection.

The speed difference is not so appreciable that your system is unusable with 6.5. I installed 5.3 once after years of experience with 6.5 just to see what it was like. From my recollection, the installation was pretty similar if not the same, except at the end there was literally nothing I could do with it because there was no open source software that anyone had bothered to compile for 5.3. There was also no updated compilers for 5.3. After about 20 minutes of staring at the desktop, I was ready to go back to 6.5 because that’s where all the software is.

I think our collective suggestion is why don’t you go through the path of least resistance to get everything working under 6.5.22 so you can learn and then take the road less traveled once you has some experience under your belt.
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07-19-2025, 03:36 PM
#25
RE: Advice for a new Indy User
Alright, I’ll try out 6.5. Regarding FX, I assumed repartitioning was the way to rearrange things. What are volume [l]abels? Do I use that in addition to [r]epartition?
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07-19-2025, 09:21 PM
#26
RE: Advice for a new Indy User
OK I'm going to lay out a lot of stuff here in chronological order, this is not a complete replacement for the guide and this does not tell you every step required. I am describing how the SGI partition table works in heavy detail because it's actually very important. After the partition table I am loosely describing the installation start process. Depending on if you have a SCSI CD or DVD drive and you're burning CDs or if you're doing a network install and you need to CD file tarballs - those are two separate installation methods. I only use the CD method myself so I can only provide assistance with that.  The guide goes specifically over CDROMs, the network install is an expansive version of the CDROM install. You need to understand the CDROM install to understand the network install anyway

DISK LABEL = PARTITION TABLE, but implemented in a highly special way that only SGI ever did.

MIPS SGI platforms use a special designed partition table/boot image storage/etc implementation that is called a disk label, they are similar to a partition table as used in a personal computer but they are implemented very very differently. Remember this was pioneered in the 80s. The original disk label is able to actually address 1TB (before Irix 6.5.15, then 2TB) back when PCs could barely address a tens of Gigabytes. The label is not just on the front of the drive it is actually strewn throughout the volume of the Disk. So it's actually hard to get rid of one!

On a PC you can just overwrite the 1st MB or two and technically blank out the partition table to make a utility the disc is empty, that does not work on an SGI disc label!  You actually have to overwrite quite a bit of the disk with 0s to get the label to disappear, if you want to drive to appear blank. But you can however create a label and overwrite the old (existing) label!  However if the label ends up being identical to the old label you can actually wind up with data surfacing from the old install into the new one. This can be a big problem. But if you go from an option disk to a root disk this can't happen.  There there are a few different ways to blank a drive if you're running into merging issues with the old data and the new data mashing together because the partition tables were identical between new and old. You can either overwrite the entire drive with zeros using another computer or you can use FX and exercise to drive using the exercise menu to write sequential zeros to the drive for you. Since you're using an SD card adapter this all basically means please create a brand new HDD image image on the SD card, do not attempt to reuse your old image file you could easily run into this type of problem from an old install and a new install actually merging together.

The disk label by standard has several partitions, they are numbered and also the numbers tend to be assigned various duties.  You do not mess with the numbers, they are not random, and they are not for your choosing. They are not meant for the user to decide what each number does what function. This is similar to the way PCs are now provision with GPT for EFI operating systems, but with more partitions.

Messing with these numbers almost never works out well, even if you know what you're doing. By default FX does what you want to do and either creates almost all the space for the root file system (/) or almost all the space for a file system that will later be mounted at a point of your choosing that is NOT a bootable (ROOT) filesystem.  But mounted anywhere else such as: /opt, /usr/, etc. You do not normally fool with the other partitions or how much space is allocated to them.  You do not mess with their order even if they don't appear in chronological order.

There is only one ROOT partitioned disk per system, there is 0 to however many additional disks the platform supports of OPTION disks which is a file system that can be mounted to any other mount point but can never be the booting drive and can never be the root file system.  You always start with a single disk system as a root formatted drive. You then format option disks to add additional drives to mount points on the file system.  Irix does have a logical extend volume manager but it requires a license, so no one uses it.  I don't believe you can boot off it anyway.

Unlike other partition table standards, SGI partitions may overlap each other on an SGI disk label. That means that some partitions are in fact a subset of one another. They are designed to have different views of the various places on the hard disk. So writing into one may actually affect another partition's contents. The numbers have important meanings:

While that's not etched in stone, their meanings are roughly:

Partition 0 is often ROOT / (XFS or EFS in older Irix), largest partition on a ROOT DISK.
Partition 1 is often SWAP space (RAW FS)
Partition 6 is often /usr, or on an OPTION DISK it is the largest partition to attach elsewhere on the main Filesystem. So this the largest partition on an OPTION DISK!
Partition 7 often represents the ENTIRE READABLE DISK AREA, EXCEPT the Volume Header and the XFS LOG.
Partition 8 is the VOLUME HEADER (VOLHDR), this is a critical area where the disk label itself and the boot image information resides, including the kernel image that's actually booted from firmware and (optionally) independent bootable diagnostics on some systems.
Partition 9 is reserved (if exists)
Partition 10 is the ENTIRE VOLUME, all the PHYSICAL WRITABLE DISK, INCLUDING VOLHDR AND XFSLOG, more than access than Partition 7, everything!!!
Partition 15 is for XFS file system transaction LOG (if exists, used on XLV volumes, MAY NOT BE PRESENT ON SINGLE DISK SYSTEMS, used in XLV)


As you found FX is a very rigid program and has expert features only for rare cases. Please follow the install guide but generally the order is this.

On a single disk system you will boot the overlay disk Install image/CDROM first along with all the other required discs of which there may be many of them, much more if you're doing developer/compiler work.

You boot FX and specify controller 0 disk 1. You're single driving in your Indy should be at SCSI ID one, if it's not jumper the drive correctly so that's is the case. At the FX prompts you basically say that you would like to re-partition a drive, you want a [RO]OT drive, not an option.  It will actually suggest defaults to you even though it shows a blinking cursor there's a default suggested you take that default, the defaults are always the maximum size the drive allows for the single volume you're interested in. In root disK it makes the root partition 0 the largest and on the option disk it makes partition 6 the largest using the volume you've presented. You do not nor have you ever needed to actually type in the space required for your partitions, it's in cluster sizes and it's highly confusing.

TAKE THE DEFAULTS!  (This all in the guide): http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/6.5inst.html

[R]epartition > [RO]OT > Confirm XFS > type .. to go back up a level > [L]abel > [Sy]nc > type /exit to quit.

You're done partitioning, it was that fast...20 secs.

The rest is the tricks of loading the OS without getting errors due to conflicts or when you boot. Remember the OS was not meant to be installed by the end user this is not meant to be a user-friendly process was supposed to be done by an on-site SGI tech or a trained administrator. Treat this machine more like a CNC milling machine or other appliance not like a personal computer. Several aspects of this process will appear very unfriendly to the average user, SGI didn't care about that because you were supposed to have a support contract and you weren't supposed to be fiddling with the operating system. That's why this process is not as easy as say installing Windows or macOS.

There are several places you can get the disc images from archived.org and WinWord are two good ones.  The CDROM images by default are not meant to be unzipped and readable they use a special format and use EFS.  You cannot normally mount them or see inside their images without special tools. Using a CDROM install is physically the easiest method if you have a SCSI CD or DVD drive or you have one of the more advanced Zulu SD adapters that can emulate CD-ROMs.  If you want to do a network install you'll need to find the files that have already been pulled from the CDs into tarballs. Someone else may be able to help you with that it's not my thing.

The CD images or the files need to be fed into the install process in the order stated in the guide, the order is important, it is not arbitrary. The guide will also suggest how to prevent packaging install conflicts toward the end of the installation process, it's an important step as well.

Start the process first and see how far you get and then return back. If you don't plan on doing any development work or compiling software you don't need to install the development foundation files. But if you have the space and you have the disc it doesn't hurt you to do so. Please get the CROM images indicated by the install guide and start the install, use FX as recommended, and continue the install as recommended by the guide.
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2025, 12:06 AM by weblacky.)
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07-19-2025, 11:59 PM
#27
RE: Advice for a new Indy User
I remember all the monumental struggles I've endured installing IRIX, experiences I am loathe to ever suffer through again. As I recall the IRIX 6.5 installation guide might as well be written in Sanskrit for all the assistance it provides...  Nervous

Project: Temporarily lost at sea
Plan: World domination! Or something...
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07-20-2025, 02:09 AM
#28
RE: Advice for a new Indy User
Helpful stuff! Good guide too. A question, why would I repartition as [RO]OT when I'd want /usr/ to have the most space? Is it to tell the OS that it's booting from there? That's good and all, but when I try to create a /usr/ partition after [ro]ot ([ro]ot gives me 0,1,8,10) it erases root and now I'm left with just usr, swap, volhdr, and volume (1,6,8,10). Another note, when I would use [a]uto for the formatting, it chooses the formatting for [u]srrootdrive, with efs, raw, efs, volhdr, and volume (0,1,6,8,10). Can I still use [ro]ot while still allocating more space to /usr/? Unless having everything on root is recommended, usually when I set up my older computers I have only system stuff on C: while everything else is under a separate drive letter, and I'd like to follow that.
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07-21-2025, 07:14 PM
#29
RE: Advice for a new Indy User
First off I need you to trust the process and follow the instructions without changes and see what you get. You're over complicating it by making incorrect assumptions that is clouding the information that was told to you. 

You might be under the assumption that /usr means USER... it absolutely doesn't, it's one of the few required system folders for a UNIX operating system, similar to "C:\Program Files" in Windows OS.  I'm going to assume you meant user home directories which are in a totally different location, see below.

You're also under the assumption that all the mount points will be laid out under FX as partitions. That's not the case at all. FX has only one job to lay out a ROOT disk or an OPTION disk, it does not layout file system mount points!  You cannot use it like gparted in Linux or diskpart in Windows or whatever to specify volume to filesystem directory mount points.  It does not do that.  There is a separate graphical disk tool in Irix that you can use to do that job once you have a running operating system.  FX partitions the disk during OS install... it does nothing else. You WILL NOT SEE.  /USR, /OPT, /HOME, /BIN, /SBIN, etc as mount points all laid out in FX...that's not it's job!

Also do not use the auto option as it's not in the instructions, don't use it! it doesn't do what you think it will do.

If you say you want a ROOT drive then the largest volume becomes partition 0 which is mount point "/".... From which all other folders are automatically included!  It's the same as having one big C: drive in Windows.  "/" means the entire volume contains the entire OS file system, that's also meant to be bootable.  You cannot boot an operating system from an OPTION drive.

You do not need to establish an additional mount point unless you add another drive, additional to a ROOT disk, and wish that drive to be mounted at a ROOT file system point. If you have a 7 GB hard drive then you're going to allocate 7 GB, roughly, to the main file system...which holds everything!  It's only when you add an additional OPTION drive that you care about where you mount the additional drive space, in Windows you'd have another drive letter, and Mac you would have something /volumes/drive.  In UNIX you could obviously mount the drives file system to any folder under "/" you wish and it becomes linked to the overall filesystem. 

UNIX does not have drive letters like Windows. All file systems must integrate into the main file system hierarchy. You don't even have a main file system yet, that's a ROOT drive.  After you have a working ROOT drive, you can format an OPTION disk in the graphical desktop utilities and make it store the home directories at /usr/people ... which is where are all the normal user home directories are except for the root user (admin), the root user doesn't have a home directory there for a good reason.

The only places I could see you "mounting" an addition OPTION drive (or more than one OPTION drives) would be places like /usr/people, /opt/, or new folders under /, like maybe a /External_Drive or /Personal_Files.  Should those folders disappear (due to OPTION drive failure) the system would still boot and root user could still login to fix things.  If you mount the secondary option drives at critical / points, then if those OPTION drives ever fail, and the main ROOT drive is all that's available, the OS will not start and you will have lost pieces of your main file system permanently.  You should mount into less conspicuous folders that can survive failure while the main ROOT drive still operates.

Under no circumstances are you to add partitions to the partition layout. That's not how this works. You declare a drive as bootable (ROOT) and containing the entire OS volume or it's an OPTION drive to be mounted somewhere on the main / tree on an existing ROOT disk filesystem, you can't have it both ways. 

You must have at least a SINGLE ROOT drive, you must boot from that ROOT drive, the ROOT drive allocates all available space to the entire central system. That file system contains everything in the operating system including user home directories, /opt. /usr, /sbin, etc... It's all one volume there is no separation.  Additional hard drives (OPTION) can be added for additional space at specific points in the (ROOT disk) file system.

Please follow the instructions and get to the end of the process then look at what the result is. It will be a lot more evident than constantly modifying the instructions and running into issues. This is not a flexible process! The process that has been dictated to you is the process that the manufacturer intended.

Even if you don't understand what it is you're doing at this very moment, please follow the instructions as they are written until you're at a graphical login screen where you can now look around at a successfully installed operating system and play with things.

You can always reinstall later if there's something you needed to change.

(07-21-2025, 07:14 PM)Anonymoose Wrote:  Helpful stuff! Good guide too. A question, why would I repartition as [RO]OT when I'd want /usr/ to have the most space? Is it to tell the OS that it's booting from there? That's good and all, but when I try to create a /usr/ partition after [ro]ot ([ro]ot gives me 0,1,8,10) it erases root and now I'm left with just usr, swap, volhdr, and volume (1,6,8,10). Another note, when I would use [a]uto for the formatting, it chooses the formatting for [u]srrootdrive, with efs, raw, efs, volhdr, and volume (0,1,6,8,10). Can I still use [ro]ot while still allocating more space to /usr/? Unless having everything on root is recommended, usually when I set up my older computers I have only system stuff on C: while everything else is under a separate drive letter, and I'd like to follow that.
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07-21-2025, 10:53 PM
#30
RE: Advice for a new Indy User
Oh I see, this does certainly help! I did end up following the steps and it went smoothly Smile Going forward, would reading something like the manuals on Techpubs help me to learn more about IRIX? I do need to get my head out of the DOS/Windows gutter and learn more about UNIX.
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07-22-2025, 12:37 AM


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