[Raion]

Yeah I don't consider that kind of stuff music personally, but even so it's also detestable for it's regular themes.

[commodorejohn]

This is, I think, the problem with how most people define "music" to mean "music that I like." If we could separate the definition of "what even is music" as a category from the value judgement of "music that we think is good," this would be a meaningfully less confusing/controversial subject :/

[weblacky]

While I'm not a huge music person, I will admit that the first rap artists in the beginning had pretty catchy/good creative works.  It quickly became more like poetry (as Raion said) but I think it was that plus interesting beats and melodies back with it all started to form (as it used other genres to lift itself into its own). It was the creative blending that gave rise to several initial rap artisits.

Now, well rap doesn't bear much resemblance to it's beginnings anymore (and I think that's a poor outcome).  but I'll admit that the late 80's to early 90's had some catchy songs that obviously took creative work.  But by the late 90's I think it distilled into what we have now, which (outside of perhaps a few artists one-hit-wonders) is just beat and lyrics and not much else.

[Nichosen]

You are spot on weblacky.

Modern hip hop is not at all what it was, sadly.
Older rap had flow... I mean... take Dr. Dre - Still D.R.E. ... one of the top 10 hip hop tunes ever in my opinion.
If you remove the rap itself there's music there... it might be repetetive but so is psytrance.
And this is something you have to do with other music as well... you have to remove the vocals to hear the music. Vocals are not always music... it's mostly song.
Or I'm I all wrong?

Edit: Added question.

[theinonen]

I must agree that rap / hip hop is not real music. My personal honest opinion is that, it is garbage and one has to have good imagination to call it as poetry. For me on a song the words are as important as the music, and the song needs to have melody to be music at all. Rap "music" is basically just samples laid after another on different tracks, and then childish words put after another to form the lyrics. Never mind if the sentences make any sense at all. 


Kids made better music with trackers on computers, than these so called rap artists do.

[Raion]

Thanks for your perspective, theinonen! I try to be somewhat charitable on some things.

[soviet]

The issue is that hearing the rap shit, young boys think that living a tug life is great.
This imitation can put you on the wrong path in life.

[vishnu]

When 50 Cent was on Letterman and he told Dave he's been shot by at least 10 bullets, Letterman said "my gosh that's terrible, I've never even been shot once!" 50 said "give it time man, give it time..."

[Raion]

The issue is that hearing the rap shit, young boys think that living a tug life is great.
This imitation can put you on the wrong path in life.

This is exactly what's happening in the United States because some kids do not have any role models other than sports stars and rap artists. And considering the eliteness of both it's not a good combination.

[Shiunbird]

This is exactly what's happening in the United States because some kids do not have any role models other than sports stars and rap artists. And considering the eliteness of both it's not a good combination.

In my opinion, it's the externalisation of what motivates us forward. There was some inner motivation for improvement and society aplauded the heroic, the knowledgeable. Think of the aristocrats who died in the skies of the WWI or even kings that used to go, fight and die in the battlefield with their subordinates.

Now what gets the approval of the peers and the grandeur of one's social stature is what you have and how you look like.

For example, we admire folks like Elon Musk or Steve Jobs because they built successful businesses, regardless of the quality of their characters, and we tend to look down on a person of less possessions, no matter how brilliant and golden they may be.