[Raion]

I'm a pretty active internet user, and have been around on it since about 1996-7 (when I was 3-4 and learning how to chat on BBS). 

I really miss the 2000s internet culture, where mom and pops sites were a big portion of traffic and people were forced to confront their own prejudices and get actual logical and reasonable challenges to what they said online; and also the whole - selective anonymity thing. Now, there's software that can at least point people to see if your writing style is at all similar to another, unrelated account and it's "evidence" like this that can lead to you being burned. 

Nowadays, the truth is that 90% of internet traffic is big corporations who can control the narrative, and old school discussions are all but a fragment of the past doomed to be weathered. 

Let me share some stories of how stupid this is becoming nowadays:

About 3 years ago there was a relaunch of a popular torrent site I was part of (I'll call it "UG") under new management. I joined up in part because that site had EXCELLENT users who knew about a wide variety of topics in a professional and intelligent way. In the relaunch period, I joined their forum discussions and there was an immediate difference. People no longer respected opinions they disagreed with, even if the opinion was well-founded and reasonable. They would mass-upvote/downvote content they didn't like (this is a reason I don't have any reactions enabled on this forum) and circlejerk about topics that only a concurring opinion was allowed in. In short, coupled with the lack of new content, the site was totally different and lacked any reason to be social. The new staff, when I reported a user for harassment, responded with calling me crazy (This guy was following me around in unrelated topics and calling me a "bigot" because I disagreed with him on a topic) and threatened me with a ban. Rather than deal with that nutcase of cancer, I changed my account password to something I didn't know, changed my profile and signature to say "UG is dead, long live UG" and unplugged from the site. Absolute cancer. 

No matter where you go, if you mention you're from the US on an international forum there's always someone who will piss in your face and lecture you about the "social problems" in your country and lecture you about unrelated topics like your president, healthcare, guns etc. like they know better than you or your populace about how to run a totally unrelated country. If you speak a foreign language online and mention you're from the US, the people will immediately talk down to you in simple words even if you're at a level where you're perfectly able to communicate at a fluent level over text. (i.e. they talk like cavemen or only say simple words)

And of course, my experiences in social media including discord and just how immature people can be over internet arguments. You even leverage basic criticism against someone or something a person likes or is doing and it's like you hurt their pride by insulting their grandmother. 

Overall, I'd say the internet is becoming heavily factionized, and the result is you get a lot of people who tell you you're the greatest thing since sliced bread, and you get to smelling your own farts all the time to the point that your ego becomes inflated enough you may be a perfectly nice and well-adjusted adult in person, but the moment you step online you change into like one of 5-10 different personalities of people you meet online. It's sickening to me that this monster has been created, and I almost want to see Google, Youtube, and all of the social media platforms dissolve and we can go back to the internet's early ages. But that's of course not gonna happen. 

The frustration is real. I'm not the only one seeing this, right? I may even be guilty of some of the stuff I am complaining about, I dunno.

[JackNet]

You're not alone. A lot of corporate and snowflake culture around the internet, indeed.

I equally miss 2000s internet culture, primarily due in part since many have not yet grasped what it truly was so things were still rather experimental. I get that things have to change, but the thing that really takes the crap cake in my opinion is the fact a lot of desktop program development cues are taken into account when designing websites. Everything is *too* dynamic and a lot of weight is put on the client browser, but I digress.

YouTube is an infamous example of this issue of corporate culture. Back in its heyday, it was a wild west of user-created content. The idea of monetizing the platform has remained mostly a mystery; it was mainly a video sharing playground for geeks. I remember when it was easier said than done to find random videos. Now... Everything feels too *professional*. Things are to be taken seriously or you won't generally be accepted. A lot of famous celebrity figures (Or as zoomers call them "influencers") spoiling youth that it's possible to get to a high state like that, but it genuinely isn't.

Twitter is another case. I still remember the time it wasn't the diet /b/+/pol/tard and Tumblr-migrant hellhole it is now. It was just to share quick snippets of what you had in mind, but now it's a stupid mess that I bet in a bit will absolutely become yet another nuclear waste dump. I even thought of leaving it after being in the site for so long.

Society is just too damn cruel now, and that's a depressing fact to think about.

[weblacky]

Yo Raion,
You make a good point, I believe the current Internet (to an bigger extent, social media) is a reflection of current perceived norms. That's not to say I'm excusing or agreeing with that behavior. But the sad truth is (even for those of us that aren't that old, but raised by old-world parents) that apparently people's feelings are valid in public now and have their own rights? I question it because they aren't, but right now is all about getting wildly upset/distracted about something (and the more sad part being you allowed a stranger you'll never meet to upset you emotionally) and then being told it's appropriate (at least you're not stopped) to whine in public to strangers. I would feel embarrassed doing that, many people no longer have the gift of shame or demand to always be the center of attention by inserting themselves into everything. Perhaps the lack of real, death possible, hardships for the average person has allow them to totally lose perspective.

I was not really punished much as a child, but it was told to me that while I may be special to my parents, that to the average person I'm no one. My feelings don't matter to the masses and to a real point the constitution of the United States talks only about tolerance (not acceptance) and liberties. None of that is about protecting people's feelings, just respecting their boundaries. To quote a line of my upbringing, "Man up". So you did.

While we have to draw a line at "hate speech", it seems several generations of people have been raised to believe their feeling are important to others, must be respected at all times, and by extension never allowed to become upset. Another side effect is because a small voice can cry foul over the internet now, no one wants to police people online or in real life for fear of backlash from accusations (whether unfounded or true) and then become a target.

I believe you should treat people in a business-like manner (basic respect to a stranger). You don't need to become pals and such, but far too many people demand an environment where they are be very personal/personable. That's rarely a good idea, but many don't know the difference.

I appreciate a place where we can push the discord a little. Unless the topic is biased to start, there isn't a reason you can't calmly discuss an issue. But eventually someone misreads (or never reads or doesn't have the capacity to comprehend...they just skim and assume) something and goes off without the basic understanding. We have to let that person pop-off under tolerance, we don't need to encourage or support it. The internet is now more trusted than a printed newspaper. Anyone can say anything and any accusation is taken seriously by at least someone.

Lastly, the Internet means different things to different people. I don't like a lack of standard layout for webpages and such and I treat the internet how it was originally designed to be treated. As a replacement for the library: research topics, learn new things, find documentation. Around 2003 the internet started to become "social" in a new way. It was social before, but you had to put some of yourself out in different groups to make those connections. Once free services attracted user video and media content collection, it became something of a data-mining machine under the disguise of being social in a central location. Then these services used incentives and tricks to trick average people into giving up information. To the point now that they can move the bar every few years (asking for more personal info then before, but training users to feel it's ok).

Like 20 years ago I once heard a study that said more people than you'd think would give you their social security number for $0.75 cup of coffee. Because they don't realize what that info represents. Social media (now) has triggered this same ignorance. People don't understand the level of exposure they place themselves in and the real value of their information. They will trade it for candy, the candy gets eaten quickly, the information rarely goes stale. It was a bad trade, too many people don't understand the damage they've done to themselves and to their lives by posting pictures, info, and events. Oversharing online is a sickness because it's hard to get someone to stop once started. Luckily for me I don't have to deal with anyone like that. I can't imagine the damage a family member using this stuff would do to the people around them. Posting without consent should be taken more seriously than it is now.

We didn't have cyberstalking before social media...you just changed your email or blocked someone else's email and that was it for online.

[Raion]

While we have to draw a line at "hate speech", it seems several generations of people have been raised to believe their feeling are important to others, must be respected at all times, and by extension never allowed to become upset.  Another side effect is because a small voice can cry foul over the internet now, no one wants to police people online or in real life for fear of backlash from accusations (whether unfounded or true) and then become a target.

I've never considered myself a purveyor of hate speech. I don't consider words like "retard" to be hate speech, but I guess I would consider words that I wasn't raised to say, like the n-word or the numerous other racial epithets you heard. That sort of thing is pretty unfunny. But I did grow up in an era where "retard" and "retarded" were part of the general lexicon, and I'm in no hurry to change that or my numerous other now-offensive colloquialisms, such as "idiot" (yes, really this is offensive now) or "cuckold".

It's just a fact that at some point the whole thing looks ridiculous to someone whose pushing 30.

I believe you should treat people in a business-like manner (basic respect to a stranger).  You don't need to become pals and such, but far too many people demand an environment where they are be very personal/personable.  That's rarely a good idea, but many don't know the difference.

Well, just to explain cases of where recently I had negative in-person interactions, I frequent a grocery store in the ghetto because it sells ethnic goods such as curry powder and stuff. It's common to not return your cart because the parking lot is fucking huge and well, dawdling around such an area is likely to get you shot. I fill my car with my cheap groceries, and some old white lady nearby admonishes me for not returning my cart. like this:

"Sir aren't you gonna return that?"

"I wasn't planning on it, no. I suggest you mind your own business." I said this in a dismissive tone.

"Put it back!!!" this lady is about 70+ years old.

I turn to her, mildly annoyed and say, "I wasn't raised to say this, but shut the hell up you old bag. I'm not hanging around the ghetto more than I have to. Screw off." and I got in my car and sprinted my car out of there.

Had she asked more nicely and less demanding, I may have been nicer myself, but even people my grandparents age (around this old person's age) would have ignored someone doing this.

Do I care that I was a bit unprofessional? No, not really because it's a norm for that area to not return carts and it wasn't exactly a safe place for a middle-class white guy with a new car. I'm not about to get mugged. Also, applying this back to online I think it's a matter of people aren't understanding that "mind your own business" is a pretty safe way to behave. It's only when it becomes your business (i.e. enters your hobbyist space or something) that it really becomes worthy of concern. Anons on the internet or in public? Who cares.

I appreciate a place where we can push the discord a little.  Unless the topic is biased to start, there isn't a reason you can't calmly discuss an issue.  But eventually someone misreads (or never reads or doesn't have the capacity to comprehend...they just skim and assume) something and goes off without the basic understanding.  We have to let that person pop-off under tolerance, we don't need to encourage or support it.  The internet is now more trusted than a printed newspaper.  Anyone can say anything and any accusation is taken seriously by at least someone.

I try to not censor people here. I REALLY do. The only time I take action is when it goes beyond the unspoken acceptability.

As far as accusations go, yeah it's a guilty until proven innocent world we live in now.

It's just an incredibly nasty culture we've bred, and overall, I am tired of it. Sometimes I consider quitting the internet, but I have no intention of ever abandoning my sites at this point. It's too much of a labor of love. I was approached, actually, months ago about someone trying to force me to shut this place down, and I flatly refused him. To think that someone would try and have them try to give me an ultimatum to shut down, I don't take that lightly.

[commodorejohn]

Yeah, I definitely miss the olden days. The commercialization of the Internet was always a nuisance, but it at least used to be nothing more than a pile of fly-by-night outfits shoving porn popups in your face, rather than megalithic corporate control of pretty damn near every major site or service, and there was far less infection of the culture with the corporate hive mindset; nowadays, the whole socialmonetizationmediafluencer parasite culture brain-virus has infected just about every creative outlet. And it was screamingly obvious to me from the get-go that "social media" was a gigantic scam, but the number of twisted emergent behaviors and social/political attack vectors it unleashed on humanity have proved to be far worse than I ever anticipated; there's some solace in the fact that the last few years have forced most of the rest of the world to at least start coming to terms with that, but we're a long way from being "out" of the resulting cultural hellhole.

[opcode]

I guess a lot of us are going through this. I have actually ditched a lot of long time friends lately. People I have known for over 20 years. I am tired of the nonsense. People I thought were smart and people that I had respect for. Trump is a character for sure but I don't get these people that seeth and become unhinged by the guy. I grew up listening to punk music in the 80s and always questioned authority. I am a very logical person and my job is to be a critical thinker and solve complicated problems aka finding root causes. The fact that everyone I think is a corrupt POS in government hates Trump makes me think that he is either the real deal and is really fighting these corrupt people or this is a massive pysops to control every mind out there with people that support him and people that hate him. I honestly don't care either way anymore. 99% of the people that I have known or in my "circle" have no idea what it even means to be an American or the ideals that we once cherished. Everything seems completely absurd now. Insane dark humor and crude crazy things I used to joke about years ago are now normal common place every day things. I would say I am a Jeffersonian liberal/Libertarian type of person. If someone isn't violating my rights then what business is it of mine, but when you have Drag queens reading story books to elementary school kids that is just f$*ked up. Social media is a mess. I never did twitter and I got rid of facebook years ago. What garbage. It is not natural. I shouldn't know what color the dump was of a girl I barely knew in 4th grade is on a daily basis. I am just glad I don't have to date and my wife is normal. I feel so bad for my kids. I miss the old internet before 2006. I miss AOL IM, GAIM, ICQ, Netscape... I used to wake up, fire up Netscape and start my newsgroups and email downloads. Then sit down and start my day reading. I had sites to go to every day. I used to love to see what SGI and Apple were coming out with next in the late 90s. Everything today is garbage. I come here and a couple of car forums. That is about it. I hate my job. I hate the cloud. I miss big iron. My job used to a sysadmin of big UNIX machines. Now I feel like I have started over in my career and it sucks. They ruined Linux. Systemd just sucks a$$. I have about 10 more years and then my wife will work and I will retire early. I have all of my SGI and car toys to play with. I won't be buying another smart phone either. I will have a flip phone to use when I drive. PagerDuty can ring my house. anyway, that is my rant... I basically don't care anymore... I am obsolete. I am just going to spend my time with the people that I really care about and do the things that make me happy.

[Raion]

Yeah between bouts of depression and mental health issues as well as the occasional odd job I am getting out of the tech industry and trying to become an author.

I worked off and on from 2013 to 2019 in various tech jobs ranging from technical support to system administration. I have to say that increasingly my role was not as a monitor and maintainer but as a disaster manager when the automated systems failed and I hated that. they were trusting everything to a monitoring team in Serbia and Egypt combined with some automation software that literally failed to do what it was supposed to do 99.9% of the time. Critical service changes were usually catastrophic in nature with energetic self disassembly being a common issue. When your services are literally falling apart and you're telling the only people who have the power to fix it that that's not their job you have a serious problem.

I'm trying to become an author simply because I have always had a talent for writing; but it has become one of the hardest points in my life. I'm still going to see it through either way but I'm probably going to spend at least several more weeks feeling sorry for myself and drinking when I run out of motivation to finish the edits.

Overall though the hardest thing that I have had to deal with that has even affected this community is that things that I've considered as part of my life are now considered points of contention that people have to take a partisan stance on. Me and several other members here on various continents happen to be fans of firearms. People feel the need to also speak out about whether or not Japanese anime is "sexist" or "bad for society", keeping in mind that it's been popular in the US since the 80s and nothing bad has happened because of it. And just about everyone has at one point or another tried to push identity politics; myself included. I won't harp too much of that but it always struck me as strange when people make statements based on there race, ethnicity, or sexuality to the expense of everybody else not part of that in group. About the only thing I've ever pushed was in the chat server when we were talking about controversial issues that a lot of people seem to find to be hard topics.

[Lady Serena Kitty]

Karens + Internet = Nuclear Karen. Worst invention of all time. You think Karens are bad in meatspace? They're nothing compared to the internet's Nuclear Karens.

[hamei]

Has anyone else noticed that it's getting to be sort of difficult to find information on the internet ? Pick a non-current, non-hipster subject ... for example, Matthews cruisers. Where once upon a time you'd hit ten enthusiast sites now you get ten pages of advertisements and one wikipedia article. Or Alco locomotives .... one wikipedia article and thirty youtube hits. Five or six sites all using the same text to lure you into clicking on their content-free pages.

The internet is truly becoming useless, unless you want to buy something off amazon.

[commodorejohn]

I need to start looking into alternative search engines again; I never got into that back when DuckDuckGo came out because their initial site design required Javascript in order to function at all, but I think they've corrected that since. Google's search gets worse and worse with every passing year (and don't even get me started on YouTube!) - there's still plenty of interesting, obscure little sites out there, but half the time nowadays it just won't even show you them, even after you click past the first dozen pages of generic clickbait.

(And that's not even getting into the part where it blatantly ignores conventions like "quotes means search for this literal phrase" now...)