[ipmungam]

Howdy -- I'm new to sgi gear.  I found a beat up O2 on the sidewalk the other day and now I'm in this forum.

Cleaned it up as best I could, it does start (with green LED) into PROM but won't boot, "dks0d2s8[and s0]: drive is not ready" messages.

I've reset the PROM now so it doesn't even try to boot.  Rather noisy whirring suggests the hard drive is spinning.

Downloaded an IRIX 6.5 iso and burned it to CD (from Mac OSX).  Installing from PROM options seems to read the CD but immediately throws errors like
"Exception: <vector=Normal> [...lots of what look like memory addresses...] PANIC: Unexpected exception"

Second attempt followed guide online to boot from a network linux box, however boot -f bootp()/stand/fx.ARCS immediately throws very similar errors like
"Exception: <vector=XUT> [...] PANIC: Unexpected exception"

Both these behaviours always repeatable, with what look like different exception details but all with same PANIC conclusion.

Any and all thoughts most welcome -- it would be great to know if it is worse than just a bad hard drive before I try to source a replacement disk.

[weblacky]

O2 can be finicky machine, some of it is still black magic. First of remove all drives, it won't care.

Also newbie tip DO NOT EVER EVER EVER REMOVE the mainboard or any components without first removing AC cord from Power supply and I recommend you ALSO POP OUT POWER SUPPLY, before removing boards for experimentation. Leaving the PSU in (with charge) can damage Mainboard on removal attempts. Don't short cut, always remove PSU first and install PSU last.

The issue with older SGIs is, the company intended you to have a service contract and a tech. So something PCs have, SGIs don't and it will seem like a pain....it is...but only until it's setup.

The BIOS is called the PROM, the PROM is somewhat simplistic but does perform a basic DIAG BEFORE presenting the Graphic PROM selection (options Interface). Older systems generally don't have a "diagnostic disk" or other tests, newer SGIs ones do (although it's not good).

Some people may disagree with me on this (it's been my personal observation several times) but you'll be missing several PROM commands without an installed OS, including resetting defaults, I know...dumb...whatever.

So what you need to do is

A. Read the O2 manual (not kidding). http://www.kill-9.it/guido/sgi/o2-wks-hw-reference.pdf

B. While understanding the memory layout situation, see what modules you have and if you can make a BARE MINIMUM RAM CONFIG, to see if errors keep reoccurring. Again, follow PSU removal rule!

c. A red led (that stays that way) on front means you've damaged it, be aware of what you're doing and be gentle with the board insertion. You do NOT need to insert the sound board or drives to use the PROM, only mainboard and PSU.

What I would shoot for (if I were you), get a VERY cheap SCSI SCA 80 drive from eBay (I recommend no less then 6GB but 9GB+ is better if you're fiddling). You'll need to see if it has a working CDROM. IRIX CDs are NOT normal, so do a DISK AT ONCE burn, don't try to mount them under MacOS or Windows they won't look like anything they understand!

Install irix 6.5.22 as best you can (you'll learn a lot), once you have a "mostly" working OS, go back INTO THE PROM and go to the terminal and type "resentenv". You'll then be able to load PROM defaults you can also lookup the date command to set time and date manually (not easy like a BIOS, hard like MacOS recovery).

Once you reset PROM defaults, things may not boot anymore, that's fine...prepare to erase and reinstall under correct, default, PROM settings. If you can do that successfully...when things are working, you can now change out memory modules (label them) to figure out what one failed (if that's the issue). Memory is special, not PC, but it's not that pricey. it does go bad..I've had to happen once over the years.

There is no memtest (not really) just internal POST diags. Exceptions can be CPU based, if it's an R5200-based CPU, they are CHEAP!!!! Otherwise, they are pricey. You won't know if its' the CPU until you KNOW it's not the RAM (yeah, I know...is this really the only way?). Well you're supposed to be back in time 20+ years ago and be on corded office phone with SGI to have a tech come out with modules and swap them to test...yes? Well that's not happening now.

if you get to graphical PROM, your mainboard should be fine! CPU and RAM is going to be your focus. Read the manual and start rotating RAM until you're stable, then you KNOW it's RAM...otherwise it's either still RAM (all bad, not enough extra sticks to test min config) or it's CPU, or CPU attachment to mainboard.

Let us know what you end up seeing and trying, take pictures with a a digital camera or cell phone so you can post exact error messages.

Thanks.

[ipmungam]

Thanks very much for the detailed reply. I'll try cycling the RAM and see if that works.

I have already resetenv so the PROM (version 4.10) output of printenv is now pretty vanilla:

AutoLoad=Yes
console=g
diskless=0
dbaud=9600
volume=80
sgilogo=y
monitor=h
TimeZone=PST8PDT
crt_option=1
netaddr=192.168.1.57
ConsoleOut=video()
ConsoleIn=keyboard()
cpufreq=195
eaddr=[omitted]
gfx=alive
videostatus=illegal_env_var

[ipmungam]

Seems the immediate problem was indeed some bad RAM, which has been removed (I should have guessed that on older hardware just because the RAM is recognised doesn't mean it works!).

Both CD-ROM and network files seem readable now, so installation either way should work in principle.

Ran diagnostics, RAM and CPU tests all passed but scsi test failed (graphics test went "out of range" for my display, presumably that's just because it is expecting a CRT display). So finding a new hard disk looks to be the next step. Thanks again!

[weblacky]

"Graphics out of range" has nothing to do with CRT technology. Standard SGI PROM Resolution is 1280x1024 @ 70Hz (maybe 75Hz), your LCD monitor doesn't likely understand the resolution refresh rate past 60Hz. You'll still need a Sync on Green (SOG) tolerant or compatible monitor (even though it's DB HD15 and have separate Sync pins and is a VESA standard, still outputs SOG. You'll have to deal with it.

Best LCDs for this are older Dell 2007wfp (like) and Samsung Syncmaster 15"-17" LCD s4:3 aspect. Normal VGA cable.

Don't try any weird HDMI, DVI, whatever converters. Just find a cheap 15" LCD (square 4:3 aspect), it will likely support it (check the manual of the monitor if you can, back then...they actually told you if it was SOG compliant).

[vishnu]

For what it's worth, I use Dell U2412M (DFP-0) 330.0 MHz maximum pixel clock flat screens on all my SGIs, not sure how available they are these days though.

[hamei]

Standard SGI PROM Resolution is 1280x1024 @ 70Hz (maybe 75Hz),

That's a big "no", poops. 60hz for sure. And you can set the resolution lower from the prom if you need to. And the prom is more capable than a  BIOS. And it is pretty much unrelated to the installed operating system. And the mention of "a" CD iso is a little off - an Irix install takes several CDs.

Installing from CD is, admittedly, a pita. There's several other methods and many threads about that around here. Unless you are installing 6.3 ? That was specifically for O2 and did come on one disk. It worked okay, too, if you come across one.

The other thing about an O2 is, it will output straight vga graphics. So should be able to come up with a monitor pretty easily that will work. (As a newb to SGI, in Irixland there is graphics and there is video and they are not the same. That's one of the first clues to the secret handshake).

What you want to do, Mr OP Sir, is go straight to the horse's mouth and get the real info. Techpubs was wonderful. I believe jan-japp has mirrored the whole thing.

btw, the only one you really need to worry about power with is the bloody O2. But with that one yup, watch your p's and q's, the damn things are sensitive as a princess brought up in a convent. They can be pretty cool - you have an R10k one - but because they are so finicky they're my least favorite. But still, congrats.

[weblacky]

Standard SGI PROM Resolution is 1280x1024 @ 70Hz (maybe 75Hz),

That's a big "no", poops. 60hz for sure.

I'm afraid you're pushing ahead a false narrative without support:

1. If you're claim were true (for him), then his LCD wouldn't have fallen "out of range".  All modern LCDs understand VESA 1280x1024 @ 60Hz, (that are large enough to be at least native 1280x1024 capable or better). The OP claims his monitor "errored", that wouldn't have happened at the standard 60Hz...it could very well have happened on a HIGHER refresh, as that is abnormal for a limited "modern", non-multisync capable, LCD. Which is why I proposed it.  Plus LCDs were extremely rare when the O2 came out, most people still had CRTs and 70hz or faster was more the norm for driving CRTs, hence the defaults.

2. This document claims my information is correct and it could be set as HIGH as 76Hz for 1280x1024, but likely defaults to 75Hz (printed page 61, for your reference): https://bukosek.si/hardware/collection/s...report.pdf

3. The O2 certainly does output SOG all the time, and cannot be turned off by known means, if you have evidence of a SOG disable feature please present it so I can finally stop having to read more than my fair share of "SOG stripping" idea posts over the years for O2 (by external means)...if there was a "known way" of disabling SOG, we'd use it.  Just like the Indy, it outputs both, pin cutting won't help.  That's why I advised just using the SOG signal, rather than trying to find an SOG tolerant monitor that used H/V sync only, (lack of good documentation).

4. Please instruct me how I can lower my resolution for Irix in PROM, I'd love to be able to easily solve the issues of people who post all the time on the forum who have accidentally set their OS resolution out of range in Irix and now cannot get it to stop.  Whenever someone suggests going into single user mode in the PROM and runs setmon to correct it, it never seems to hold for them once they login to the desktop session...so we go through this big thing of them logging into a serial terminal while running X and trying to setmon via serial while X is running on the blanked, out-of-range, screen and everything is super hard now.  If irix just took its resolution from a ENV variable in the PROM, that would be heaven and a heck of lot simpler to fix.  Please provide anything you can on this topic, it would greatly help others in the forum.



Also, I don't know any real argument to support why these old PROMs are superior to modern PC Firmware (CSM/UEFI), as ample examples exist for modern PCs for the amount of customization and alteration of system functions with regards to: Boot options, Add-in ROMs, thermal options, fan curves, lighting, memory speeds and tweaks, CPU multiplier and voltage settings, sleep or low-power support/tweaks, most have native file browsing/access for exFAT, FAT16, FAT32, and some have more support (NTFS) for file selection, and integrated peripheral behavior options - just to name some off the top of my head.  SGI PROM has a hard to use date command, EFS/XFS support, some ENV set commands, and a few diskless/netboot options, plus some have a high vs low res PROM graphics mode (or headless)...and they can load the kernel to boot strap (same as UEFI can)...perhaps a few more options. What did I miss?

Also you've misread my CD burning suggestion to somehow imply Irix has a single CD. That claim is false and unsupported by the thread text (not what the text of this post says). I mentioned "Irix's CDs are not normal" (plural), I said, DISK AT ONCE...you know DAO mode, for the burning profile/technique. So there also that...for some odd reason. But, if you're a fan of using TRACK AT ONCE (TAO) mode for Irix disks then that's cool, whatever works for you.  Disk At Once mode works for me.

[hamei]

I don't know about narratives but someone definitely has their facts wrong.

Look at the back side of an O2. That's what we call a VGA connector. Standard old-world VGA, connects to just about anything. That's one reason the O2 was more popular than some others, back when monitors were picky and sheep ran scared - it's the only one that came that way. No 13w3, no dvi, just garden variety VGA.

Most CRT's will have no problem with the O2 sync on green. Many will have an extra greenish cast, others totally ignore it, a few go bonkers and say no way Jose, I'm not gonna work. But those are the minority. (O2 is different from the SGI's that only had sync on the green line, O2 has the normal peecee style as well.)

I have never heard of a non-fixed-frequency CRT that didn't sync up at 60 hz. Even the fixed-frequency monitors were generally 60 hz refresh. I say "generally" because I didn't own every single one, but all the ones I saw or had were. The higher refresh rates on multi-syncs were available on the more expensive monitors. You had to pay extra for those and they still synced (sanc ? sunc ?) at 60. In fact it was common for fixed frequency monitors to sync at 60. I replaced the Zenith 1492 with a 16" HP one on a Vectra, maybe Warp 3 ? The thing was, you couldn't see the boot screen as it wasn't until the OS took control that the resolution was changed, bootup was 640-480, aka vga. It was all 60 hz tho. Even the 1492 ran at 60. Everything ran at 60.

Changing res is easy (but annoying), you can even do it blind (have had to many times, I have the unfortunate habit of mucking stuff up. "Let's try this !" uhm, here's another thing I shoulda not done ...) Anyway, you just get into the prom blind by hitting esc about a million times while the machine boots, and even if the prom itself is a no-show you type "setenv graphics l" blind (I think it's l, could be low) then reboot and you'll at least have the prom, from which you can hop into the boot disk and change the res from a command line. This whole process has been explained so many times that if people are too lazy/stupid to do a search, too bad for them.

The remark about a single CD was because the OP mentioned he "had an ISO" which rang my alarm bells, unless it's 6.3 he needs more than one iso. 6.5 takes a bunch. While we're here, if a 6.3 is available somewhere, it's a TON easier to install and runs all the same programs and works quite well on an O2. At this date I'd probably run that.

None of this stuff is magic, it's all well-documented, Techpubs is the place to go, SGI did really good manuals, and some of you young'uns have some very strange misconceptions.

[weblacky]

In ipmungam's case, it's an LCD, in the case of future users....it's going to be LCD. I agree that "consumer" CRTs of the day weren't fixed frequency, I'm unsure why SGI granite Trinitrons were, I assume cost and availably at that size of CRT made that decision (It was a poor one, but did lock people into specific monitors...which did make SGI money in the short term).

Before I saw 13w3, I'd only seen BNC fixed frequency and heard about the "cannot see the BIOS or DOS during boot" issue with people using BNC fixed frequency monitors with normal windows PCs back in the day from recycling centers for SUN and SGI monitors.

But here we are. VGA is nothing but an emulation for driving LCDs so you wonder why "newer" models aren't MORE tolerant of strange, old, standards and conventions (MONO, CGA, EGA, NTSC, RGB SOG, VBS NTSC, etc) and more flexible (built-in controller in LCD monitors should iteratively get better with time), but no...they are redesigned every time...forgetting more than they used to know.

I've seen several CRTs (Vewsonics at least) go "green tint" but work with SOG due to not tolerating SOG, I've seen more LCDs just go to sleep and refuse to work then tint on me. So it's harder to get a picture with a standard consumer LCD on an old SGI that it's ever been since consumer LCDs and multi-sync CRT standard met in the early 2000s and then diverged.

There are third party devices that can fix this...but for now ipmungam should just pickup a cheap 15"-17" LCD that handles it fine and move on. I still stand by that statement. I'm still finding old Dell 2007wfp or the like monitors from businesses for $10 each...people don't want 4:3 aspect, you can often talk them into near free pricing. Granted, new 4:3 aren't SOG tolerant either but 2006-2008ish is my sweet spot for SOG LCDs that look fine (no ghosting or washed panels).