[Raion]

If they end up helping you out; please let us know if they can document the process at all. If they are willing to take notes/write a manual for it, then I'm sure users here would appreciate it.

[sgi_tx]

They still have the system and I have not yet heard back. They were quite hesitant to take it on but I told them I would pay for their time even if they weren't able to repair successfully and made an advance payment to satisfy them. I expect to hear sometime this week and whatever information I can get, I'll share. However, it's unlikely - based on my interactions with them so far - that they will be willing to document anything formally.

[sgi_tx]

Spoke to them today. $350 bill for replacing all the caps, some of which were visibly leaking. Had I known the cost prior to them doing the work, I would have elected to buy an Indigo2 just for the power supply! The worst part is I still don't know if it works. I have to pick it up next week and if it doesn't power up, too bad for me. The labor alone was billed at 5 hours.

It seems like Indigo2 users and collectors are in for tough times. Even if one does pick up a used supply that's working at the moment, it's only a matter of time before it will fail. And the complexity of this repair is quite obvious both from the description I just got from this technician and everything I've read online. I've got a number of these systems including a Power Indigo2 R8000. With no cost effective solution in sight, it's depressing to think that these are becoming unmaintainable.

Why couldn't SGI have just used an ATX power supply!!!

[weblacky]

Sorry to hear about that. But how can they have the system and not know if it works? They literally cannot install the PSU and press a power button?

I'm sorry you saw first-hand the reality of this new brave world. You've obviously seen me be very very vocal on this exact subject on the forums here. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but trying to get people rallied on the topic to do something about it. And yes, PSUs are still too cheap for effective rebuilding. As I previously stated, prices would need to rise to at least $500 to make it worth a tech's time due to the density of the Indigo2 PSU and disassembly of IMPACT-capable PSUs in particular.

What I'm hoping is, in the future, I can do a cash+exchange PSU sales option. Where a person mails in their Indigo2 PSU, I evaluate it, and sell them another PSU of the same model that's already rebuilt and keep their old one (prorating the PSU sale) to be rebuilt for the next customer. Doing it this way, I'd hope to be able to sell most Indigo2 PSUs for cheaper, if I get a PSU of the same model in return (without additional rust or damage of course).

I'll know more next year, but this needs to happen. SGI PSU rebuilds will have to happen to continue our collecting. Otherwise, It' all over.

I know some people are more about adapting ATX PSUs for SGIs. In some cases, I think this should be the primary goal (for Like Fuel and Tezro where they are already extremely close). But I don't think it's reasonable for the older stuff that is high-wattage, because most ATX supplies don't meet those requirements, and adding the DC-DC electronics to suck more power from the 12V rail would increase cost and failure rates (more PSUs in a system). Perhaps someone with the right knowledge will come along and decode the mainboard-side of the PSU logic issues and come up with a simple ATX interface adapter with a programmable IC to convert the logic.

I personally believe more in PSU rebuilding than ATX adapting. Only because adapting anything other than cabling COULD bring the wrath of however owns the rights to the design or even the current holder of the SGI trademark (or whatever). The community is so small, that even if a new PSU was made, they would have to cost a high amount due to low volume of sales.

[Irinikus]

Recapping a PSU should be an easy enough task, what we most importantly need to find out is what silicon usually takes strain within a switch mode power supply, as that will need replacing too.

In the future, once I have my Weller rework station and all the required anti-static gear, I'll apply my mind to this.

I haven't taken a look at one of these yet, but there are usually test points in the circuit, which should have specific voltages present when referenced to ground. It would be useful to note the voltages present at these points in known working power supplies. (I am fully aware that even working power supplies might have degraded, as far as these reference voltages are concerned, but it will at least give you some idea as to where they should be.)

I generally live by the principe, "If you want something done properly, it's best to do it yourself"!

I will be honest in saying that I only intend looking into fixing the PSU's in machines such as the Tezro, Onyx2 and maybe Octane2, as these are the only machines that I intend to and consider worth running into the future. The rest will just be retired to being kept as collectors items.

[Raion]

I'll put my .02 in since this has become "Power supply general" LOL.

On caps replacement, that's a bit of a ripoff. Had a CRT guy replace the caps in my Indy PSU and some of the diodes and MOSFETs and he only charged me $50 plus some Pabst, and materials costs. I'm not badmouthing these guys, but yeah, that's a little shitty on pricing, but somewhat expected. The I2 is a very complex PSU. 

On AT/ATX PSU conversions, the Fuel is all you really get. The Tezro CAN use an ATX PSU, but it isn't a 1:1. You simply are running the system out of its design spec, as the voltage rails won't dynamically adjust and could lead to lower board life. Am I willing to risk that? No. I bought a new PSU from Israel. 

As far as pricing goes for repairs, I mean, it really depends on how many someone can blow through. I would if I could, set the rate at about $40 an hour. That's above what I've ever made at any job.

[Trippynet]

$350 is very expensive. I had an Indigo2 PSU re-capped in the UK by a company that specialises in PSU repair and refurbishment. Cost me about £120. This was admittedly expensive, however Ian does charge more for some of his I2 PSUs (that aren't recapped), so I decided to give it a go.

Thing is though, I got the quote from them in advance...

[weblacky]

"Recapping a PSU should be an easy enough task", is the equivalent of saying "putting a ring on a engine piston is an easy enough task".

That's like 5-10% of the work, so yeah putting a new cap in is easy (and the fun part), once you've gotten into the PSU casing (Indigo2 is tricky), deconstructed the origami/fortune cookie folded PCB design, washed all the staining black soot/dust out of it, manually removed all the horrible white Silicone Stabilizer off the parts (just for removal), desoldered all the FETS so you can remove the HUGE heatsinks that COVER the tops of a lot of the same capacitors you're after, then remove the caps themselves, then clean the board for any cap leakage...I haven't even replaced anything yet.

If you don't include part research and ordering, then the above is about 2-3 hours work right there. Only the O2 and Indy (that I've seen) have a PSU that looks anything like an old PC PSU. If you think you're going to undo 4 screws, pop out one, single-sided, PCB and go to town, I have bad news for you, only the Indy and O2 look like that (maybe Iris Indigo as well). Everything else has multiple boards, huge wires soldered between boards (no connectors on a few things). And Even the Indy has huge amount of stabilizer holding the PCB to PCB connection together if you need to separate them, you're in for a time. The Octane PSUs are more accessible but unmounting the boards is still time consuming (but newer system PSUs were better designed for repair, that's the fact).

Also, the Indigo2 PSU (at least) has a HUGE number of passive components, many of the logic areas dealing with voltage comparison where not done by ICs (not by semiconductors), they were done with larger resistor networks...read...too many resistors to count.

If you've put in the real effort to actually open an IMPACT-capable PSU, then you're going for the long haul.

I agree that these are doable/fixable, but they are dense (that's why they are heavy), Anyone who says, oh I'll just use test points and figure things out...Good luck getting to any test point after assembly, or when it's powering the machine.

Sure you could ruin the test points by soldering small wires to them to go outside the PSU case through the venting holes and hook to equipment...that's how you'd have to do it. SGI made sure field repair wasn't anywhere on the design list. They were meant to be tossed and you buy another.

If you've never been inside an Indigo2 PSU, don't get the image in your head that's it's an old 486 AT PSU from 1995.

They can be fixed, that's my plan. But they require a lot of investment to hold the still-attached boards in the air (unless you want to to risk damage) and desolder and do part research. The disassembly isn't a joke and the cleaning isn't some sprinkling of Isopropyl Alcohol and an old toothbrush. I've cleaned three Indigo2 PSU (preparing for research) already, two were IMPACT-ready and one was a teal Non-IMPACT (easy by comparison), ALL had horrible, black, statically charged, fine soot particles in them (got them from different places too) that stuck to your hands into your skin when you touched it. I used an industrial electronics cleaning setup at my employer's (pressurized and heated DI water, degreaser, agitation brushes, and rinses) and finished off in a rapid drying wind tunnel cabinet...and it STILL didn't get every single speck of that black crap off everything (98% clean). But it cuts the hand-time of cleaning down to about 20 minutes (once you start after disassembly)

That's why I repeatedly say $500 PSUs, because if you assume the PSU is worth anything real by itself, then you put in say 4 man hours over the course of 3 days, then you've got like $200 in labor and materials (my cleaning process for company employees - friend rate is $50, $125 for clients, so now my costs are $250, if the PSU was even $50 (which is what I've been paying people for broken PSUs so far) then I'm at $300. We haven't even considered case issues (rust) and liability issues of running a repair business and handling returns and losses. Keeps adding up. Once people know these can be fixed they will start jacking up the broken unit rates to like $100+.

Then you have the people that used a 40W unregulated Radio Shack soldering iron to try to repair their PSUs...read - RUINED stuff. Then try to pass it off to us for repair...now you're dealing with more burnt crap and damage due to novices practicing on an expensive piece of kit (increasing costs).

Assuming you don't need to just boot the system to get data off it before it goes in the trash, we're looking at serious workmanship here and due diligence on best-effort cleaning and rebuilding. If have to go this far, you might as well get new Semiconductors and diodes and refresh the heatsinks paste too, etc...

I don't use the term "recapping" for a reason. They need rebuilding, it's a process. Once a process can be streamlined...sure it gets easier, but that doesn't lower the bar of difficulty.

[Raion]

I don't have any fine soot inside my power supplies... I have no idea if that's an industrial thing or what.

For cleaning boards, what I usually do is use a hose. I've never damaged a board by using the "Jet" setting on a simple garden hose from 6-8 in away. That's the start, and then dishwasher, and then a few days in my dry cupboard, finally a few good shakes and heat from a hairdryer, and then a quick dunk in denatured alcohol (like 20 seconds) followed by a final dry of 48 hours.

[sgi_tx]

The story just gets worse, sadly.

Went and picked the system up today. Paid nearly $400 with tax for the PSU repair.

The cap replacements, which were the only "repairs" conducted, didn't resolve anything. The supply is still completely dead.

I got a bunch of printed images of the repair process and I was given the old capacitors back. Sharing below in case this is of help to anyone here, though I can't imagine how it would be.

Wasn't a fun day.