[Raion]

So I've been meaning to drastically improve the marketplace. Among the changes I want to make, and we (the staff) are still talking about, are rules regarding how transactions should be carried out, expansion of categories, increased oversight over transactions (basically, make sure transactions close) and encouragement of people to do transactions on the site, so we can better assist if there's a problem. 

This is in addition to common sense things, like preventing idle chatter in for sale things, ending auction advertisements in marketplace forums (That's why the Ebay thread was created), adding transaction feedback, and an overhaul of categories and removal of closed transactions from the throughfare. 

I understand this will probably create a burden on me and others here, so we will also likely be looking to appoint people to help moderate feedback and handle thread closures in these areas. If we end up doing this, you will be exclusively privileged to that area of the forums. But that remains to be seen. 

The feedback system we're going to use is called "EZTrader" and is a free plugin. 

If anyone else have suggestions, I'm all ears. I may also be willing, once this overhaul is done, open up the OPEN threads to both search indexing and to non/guest users. I think this will give us an edge in helping to provide a better area for both users and traders to share parts.

[GeekLucanis]

I think it'll be a great idea if moderated and have certain people pruning and closing threads

[weblacky]

I'd like to see some basic rules from the get-go. 

Like, you must post at least 4+ pictures that show all sides of the object, pictures must be a minimum of 2MP resolution.  One-liner descriptions won't be accepted, and new users that haven't participated in discussions (give some metric) cannot post items for sale just by joining.  Obviously false claims or information (or just plain wrong information e.g. Dual CPU Fuel for sale!) should be quickly locked and disabled until owner corrects the information and shows pictures to back it up (as much as possible).  Also, unless explicitly stated in the description, what hardware is shown in the picture is included with the sale.

Also, I think every "for sale" post (there won't be that many) should be approved by a moderator before appearing to the members.  That way at least one person will read the description, look at the pictures, and decide if this posting was done, correctly, in good faith.

I'm worried about bad actors (scammers).  Without trust this community won't work!  There's nothing to fear from two people, trading in good faith.  We can even still use PayPal...but obviously this doesn't provide the same protection as eBay.  If someone's asking like $500+ for an item...I'd start to question what happens if it goes south.  For low-value items, I think it's a great idea (given eBay fees are so high now!). For complete systems, I think we need to set the bar higher to prevent fraud and keep scammers out (by requiring more information and images from the person and the system).  I think we should also have our own section for complete systems versus parts.  I'd prefer to at least categorize on that.  Also I want a dead, damaged, or for repair category.  So people know we want them to post broken parts as well (but in a special category).

I also think we should consider going so far as to put limits on asking prices unless the seller is "verified" by the site and by that I mean maybe we should have to send in a photo of our current driver's license and have a live video chat to confirm appearance or something with the site operator to "approve" our account for high-value items.  In my home state there is a free .GOV website to verify state issued IDs.  It won't verify address, but you give it license number and birthday and it will tell you if those things do match a current (active) license.  You'll also have a picture from the video chat/license card.  That should be enough for legal reasons.

We don't want a person to just disappear after getting payment.  If we have to prove our identity and the operator has a copy of that information, then if a $3,000 USD deal goes south, we have party information for legal recourse.  I'm not proposing we tell people how to price their items, I just want to make sure that people can post $50 items without an issue (we know the risk) versus $800 systems and commit fraud.

I also want to make sure we pay something for selling, It' not fair to the site operator if this is really all free.  I feel like posting a system for sale should cost you something (like $10) to pay for the work and also to verify identity (name on PayPal matches Identity given for verification).

I know with that kind of barrier, we won't get as many postings.  But I've rather have high-quality postings that I can trust.

[Raion]

I think we can incorporate some of those.

I think clear images with a resolution of at least 1024x768, a detailed description of the configuration, and any notices of imperfections, damage or things like disk configuration are fair. I can't guarantee something like 2MP just sue to disk space. If I wasn't in the red every month, I could probably scale up disk space as needed, but in absence of that, it would probably quickly spiral out of control. The Silicon Image service is an easy way to get around this limitation but it still has a couple of bugs in present day.

I also would prefer all transactions to utilize fully insured shipments with declared value correct and everything. I'm aware that some people might have to pay expensive import duties but there's no other way of getting around it for instance if a package is lost. Insurance claims should be the first line here because that's what it's for.

I think that it's fair for higher value or high-volume traders that we utilize some sort of verification system however because it's a 50-state patchwork and not all sellers are US based this might not be necessarily possible.

My personal view is that we should not take a chunk of revenue from sales because that's what eBay already does and doesn't put us ahead. I don't think that we are entitled to revenue however I might in the future once I have cleared the legal side of it set up an escrow service for higher-value items if the demand is there. Basically this would allow us, the neutral party, to hold payment in escrow until we have confirmed everything and to allow us to arbitrate disputes. This would not be day one or necessarily anytime soon.

I want categorizations as well. But I don't want them to be too fine grained where it's like you have dozens of potential categories to wade through. I think something like:

Systems
Parts & Accessories
Software
Misc

Each with its own open and closed subforums is sufficient for SGI stuff.

I'm willing to add categoriesfour other systems instead of just using an "Other" Catch-all but there needs to be sufficient demand and not just one or two systems being sold at a time.

I don't want auctions. I don't want links to eBay sales, and I think it's only fair that if you have listed something here that it can only be buy it now on eBay or listed on Craigslist classifieds. And I have ideas about how we should format but those would need to be discussed and figured out because I don't necessarily want to make it too complicated.

[hamei]

On the other hand ..... apparently a lot of people on fleabay don't know a damned thing about SGI. About anything, really .... they just want the money. And their prices are ridiculous. And who knows if they even have the part, maybe it's a total fraud ... But if I am looking for, say, the ps/2 daughtercard for an O350, I'd rather dredge through every flake on the planet then not have the option at all, know what I mean ?

Totally agree with you about goals but when you are looking for hard-to-find stuff, sometimes you can't be so picky ?

Would more of a caveat emptor but with a rating system work better ?


Also, killing old threads has some merit, but logging old transactions also has advantages. If you can go look and see that Octane V12's have brought $350 in the past ten transactions, that's a handy way to help your buying decisions. Maybe archive them instead of throwing away ?

[weblacky]

I agree and to be clear I was not advising the site gets a percentage of sale, just that we pay an "insertion fee" of some kind. If nothing more than to pay for image storage! Good images make or break a transaction (cannot be overstated), If I was posting a great system for $700, I'd expect to post like 8-12 pictures, close-ups, and such. Really showing condition. I'd rather not pay for what I use, I'd rather pay a fixed price with a limit on the number of pictures. Again, If I'm selling a $50 part, a $10 fee is too much, if I'm selling a system a $10 fee should be no problem, still less than eBay! It's not about making money but you have to consider people who post and then retract, or it never gets any action for whatever reason.

If it's stays forever, then it costs you forever. If it goes away after 30 days and has to be reposted, then at least that will clean things out. Either Way, you're storing things that sell and things that don't. So a basic insertion fee is reasonable. Even if it's only like $1.25, charge us, we're getting the benefit, you're getting the bill. I think in this case, to post it on the live member areas, a fee should be paid.

Otherwise, if you don't want to do that kind of automation, then just allow members that want to sell to pay you for a "month's access", and time out their content after their 30 days. That's simple but requires human interaction. If I use an online form and PayPal you a month's seller access fee to the marketplace, you could verify me and that sets my timer. If I don't pay you (renew), my content will expire. There would be no retroactive credits paid back. But you could make a system of credits, where I still have days worth of credit on the market place. After my last posting is marked as sold, the credit clock could be stopped or frozen (for let's say 90 days) and I have that time to use up my credit by posting new sales. If I don't renew, I still hit my credit/time limit. If I'm not back in 90 days, I lose my past credits and you keep the reminder of my past fee (for long term storage maybe).

I think it's interesting about posting Buy-It-Now auctions from eBay. I'd like to see it changed to be more useful as a value tracker. Since the listing would disappear on eBay over time, unless we do a screen grab or something on the old posting, we just end up with links, conversation, and nothing else...if your going to save eBay link conversation threads (and not delete eBay posts when they expire) then somehow keeping pictures, description, and final sale price would be worth more over time (metrics). If you had an eBay API dev account this might be easy...but that might not be easy to get. Just saying, two sides of the coin, if you allow ebay-direct links, then remembering their content would become important for historical metrics.

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Also in regards to you category remarks, they aren't really making any more SGI stations (I mean real ones, not fake company name stuff today). We know all the systems that existed. I'd say make a proper model category for everything (down to a field to enter the part numbers, if present, on the post form) but hide empty categories when browsing. That way if there are no, let's say Indys for sale, then there is no Indy system category shown when browsing. Show only what's in inventory.

Also get a basic search filter going: System Model selection or ALL, None/HDD Size ranges, None/Ram Ranges, CPU 1 or more, OS installed/YES?NO, cosmetic ratings (subjective I know but honesty works here), working/broken/UNKNOWN, ANY/AS-IS/warranty, etc...

Also, Since we know what we're dealing with, cute little system model icons and generic part icons (HDD icons, RAM icons) on the postings would be cool!

[Raion]

On the other hand ..... apparently a lot of people on fleabay don't know a damned thing about SGI. About anything, really .... they just want the money. And their prices are ridiculous. And who knows if they even have the part, maybe it's a total fraud ... But if I am looking for, say, the ps/2 daughtercard for an O350, I'd rather dredge through every flake on the planet then not have the option at all, know what I mean ?

Totally agree with you about goals but when you are looking for hard-to-find stuff, sometimes you can't be so picky ?

Would more of a caveat emptor but with a rating system work better ?


Also, killing old threads has some merit, but logging old transactions also has advantages. If you can go look and see that Octane V12's have brought $350 in the past ten transactions, that's a handy way to help your buying decisions. Maybe archive them instead of throwing away ?

To be clear, I simply want the threads to not be visible. They will be in closed sections that are not indexable by Google. The reason being, there is no free lunch. You want to use our resources, be a part of the community. 

I don't really want, weblacky, to paywall off the stuff. I am /hoping/ that with a new marketplace, people will see value and either give us paypal donations or patreon to compensate for my R&D costs. But I don't care that much about a profit. 

For archiving eBay, use archive.is. I do NOT want ebay BIN listings to be listed in the marketplace, you misunderstood me. I meant that if we catch someone double-timing by posting auctions to the same items they're offering here, we won't allow that. Basically, I want the same prices to be available from any site. Maybe a /small/ discount, but I wouldn't want a part listed here for say $150 and be listed for $50 on Ebay via an auction. Either you choose to auction it, or you choose to sell it fixed price. No double-timing. No gazumping, etc. 

The only time I would want to consider charging would be if trader class users decide to use IRIXNet as their primary marketplace, and if they did more than say, 5,000USD within 90 days. In which case, I think a 1% fee per quarter would be fair? But that's probably the most I'd ever consider charging. People can use siliconimage for bigger things

I want this to be better/easier than eBay, not a slightly crappier classified system that has drawbacks.

[pcar]

I think the "community" aspect should play a huge role here, the idea of the community is that we are here to help each other, not have this be a profit generating tool for users with SGI gear. Reasonable market prices must be enforced, all listings must be "approved" before they are live, the marketplace needs mods who can deny a post because the price is not in line with "good faith" in the community.

For example, another user here was looking for an SGI DAT drive, I had one that came with one of my Octanes. The listings on ebay are anywhere from a starting bid of $50 to $200, being a member of this community and wanting to help a fellow member, I sold it to him for $35. I'm not here to make a profit, I just wanted someone else to benefit from something I had laying around, and this is reinforced by wanting to help the community grow.

Also, if it helps keep the site running, I gladly pay a small fee for the listing service.

[Raion]

Price enforcement isn't going to really be part of it, but the encouragement is to price fairly obviously. Nobody is gonna buy a $500 Indy.

[weblacky]

I agree with Raion, people should be able to ask what they want, but hopefully if there is enough history, they will see what prices are like when posting and that may influence their decision on final pricing. Extra parts and helping people out is great, but if it's not an "extra part" for me, I don't run a charity, but I'll give a fair price (what I would pay).

Complete systems with repairs need to be able to ask for more than a system that I found in my parent's attic. Also, as I mentioned in another post, I foresee systems with heavy rebuilding work and cleaning with new parts and upgrades being posted in the future (instead of old AS-IS, cobweb systems) in order to garner higher prices and I think that's fine.

If I want to trick out a Dual 400Mhz Octane with 2GB of Ram and old-style skins with a SCSI SSD (NOT SCSI to SD card), custom light bar, rebuilt PSU, PCB cleaning, and possibly new fans, who's to say it's not worth $2,500 given the work/risk that went into rebuilding it? I think there will be people interested in paying up to dehassle themselves with a clean and new-ish looking system.

Also, I envision services being sold, or at least money + part exchanges for rebuild services too, so having a marketplace that supported rebuilt inventory would be a new thing for us. We may even want a special power supply section just to house labor-intensive rebuilds and high prices when we get started. As I've stated many times, for the amount of work I suspect anything but an Indy PSU takes, they would exceed SGI depot prices after full cleaning and rebuild. But I think it's important to test the waters and allow that, given that a reason exists to justify it. Selling old used PSUs will occur too, and the members can choose what works for their wants/needs.

We'll be trying new things, things I don't remember being done before, because part scarcity has forced part reuse/repair versus buying cheap dusty used parts and throwing the old parts away. It seems a lot of parts have been trashed over the last 7-9 years. We have to change to compensate. Mainboard repair will also start to become a thing, we can't throw mainboards out anymore...people already did that...now we're here. Also, we'll have to find a way to recondition or transplant custom fan housings for the later stations or come up with a 3D print to hold third-party fans in the location they need to be in. 3D printed parts (internals and sleds) will also likely become a thing as genuine inventory dries up.