[kaigan]

So, no chance for O4 graphics on an O300, unless ATi made a pci version .... which card is that, actually ? Fire-what ?

The cards are FireGL X1s, based on the R300. ATI made a number of PCI cards, but I'm not sure that IRIX would support them. I'm actually trying something similar on my Altix 350 setup, though - trying to get a PCI FireGL working on SLES9. In theory, it's compatible. We'll see.

The ATi cards used by the Onyx4 are AFAIK identical to the later cards used by the prism.

The Prisms use ATI FireGL X2s, so they're slightly newer cards. I imagine that you could probably get the FireGL X1s to work, though.

[markus.kummerer]

Sorry for being late.

IIRC a forum member on nekochan had evaluated a Prism prototype. According to his post back then, the prototype had Onyx skins and used "exactly the same cards" as Onyx4 (FireGL X1).

There was also a FireGL T2 option for the Prism deskside.

Early Onyx4 used PCI-X based FireGL X1 cards.


Hope this helps,

Markus

[kaigan]

Sorry for being late.

IIRC a forum member on nekochan had evaluated a Prism prototype. According to his post back then, the prototype had Onyx skins and used "exactly the same cards" as Onyx4 (FireGL X1).

There was also a FireGL T2 option for the Prism deskside.

Early Onyx4 used PCI-X based FireGL X1 cards.


Hope this helps,

Markus

That is really cool! I have a pair of T2s and spare X1s, so I'll have to try them in the Prism rackmount at some point to see how the system reacts. I imagine that they should work just fine, then.

[kaigan]

After a trade/sale with @mopar5150, I now have a quad-1GHz node board installed in the Onyx4 G2N brick! I need to max out its RAM at some point, but the system is otherwise at max spec for the Power configuration now. Here's the updated hinv:

Code:

kaigan@artemis ~ % hinv -vvvm
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node
Part:030-1989-003;Name:IP59_4CPU;Serial:NWN315;Revision:-C;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:0000000056294b19;
Location: /hw/module/001c01/IXbrick/xtalk/15
Part:030-1809-003;Name:2U_INT_53;Serial:NCC056;Revision:-B;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:000000005420d3ba;
Location: /hw/module/001c01/IXbrick/xtalk/15/pci-x/0/1/ioc4
Part:030-1771-006;Name:IO9;Serial:MTW011;Revision:-A;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:0000000052481d25;
Location: /hw/module/001c02/node
Part:030-1989-003;Name:IP59_4CPU;Serial:RPV539;Revision:-D;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:0000000063e63085;
Location: /hw/module/001c02/CGbrick/xtalk/15
Part:030-1809-003;Name:2U_INT_53;Serial:NCB638;Revision:-B;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:0000000054203b94;
8 1.0 GHZ IP35 Processors
CPU: MIPS R16000 Processor Chip Revision: 3.0
FPU: MIPS R16010 Floating Point Chip Revision: 3.0
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node/cpubus/0/a
CPU 0 at Module 001c01/Slot 0/Slice A: 1.0 Ghz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)
  Processor revision: 3.0. Scache: Size 16 MB Speed 333 Mhz  Tap 0x15
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node/cpubus/0/b
CPU 1 at Module 001c01/Slot 0/Slice B: 1.0 Ghz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)
  Processor revision: 3.0. Scache: Size 16 MB Speed 333 Mhz  Tap 0x15
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node/cpubus/1/a
CPU 2 at Module 001c01/Slot 0/Slice C: 1.0 Ghz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)
  Processor revision: 3.0. Scache: Size 16 MB Speed 333 Mhz  Tap 0x15
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node/cpubus/1/b
CPU 3 at Module 001c01/Slot 0/Slice D: 1.0 Ghz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)
  Processor revision: 3.0. Scache: Size 16 MB Speed 333 Mhz  Tap 0x15
Location: /hw/module/001c02/node/cpubus/0/a
CPU 4 at Module 001c02/Slot 0/Slice A: 1.0 Ghz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)
  Processor revision: 3.0. Scache: Size 16 MB Speed 333 Mhz  Tap 0x15
Location: /hw/module/001c02/node/cpubus/0/b
CPU 5 at Module 001c02/Slot 0/Slice B: 1.0 Ghz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)
  Processor revision: 3.0. Scache: Size 16 MB Speed 333 Mhz  Tap 0x15
Location: /hw/module/001c02/node/cpubus/1/a
CPU 6 at Module 001c02/Slot 0/Slice C: 1.0 Ghz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)
  Processor revision: 3.0. Scache: Size 16 MB Speed 333 Mhz  Tap 0x15
Location: /hw/module/001c02/node/cpubus/1/b
CPU 7 at Module 001c02/Slot 0/Slice D: 1.0 Ghz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)
  Processor revision: 3.0. Scache: Size 16 MB Speed 333 Mhz  Tap 0x15
Main memory size: 12288 Mbytes
Instruction cache size: 32 Kbytes
Data cache size: 32 Kbytes
Secondary unified instruction/data cache size: 16 Mbytes
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node/memory
Memory at Module 001c01/Slot 0: 8192 MB (enabled)
  Bank 0 contains 1024 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 1 contains 1024 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 2 contains 1024 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 3 contains 1024 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 4 contains 1024 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 5 contains 1024 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 6 contains 1024 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 7 contains 1024 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
Location: /hw/module/001c02/node/memory
Memory at Module 001c02/Slot 0: 4096 MB (enabled)
  Bank 0 contains 512 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 1 contains 512 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 2 contains 512 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 3 contains 512 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 4 contains 512 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 5 contains 512 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 6 contains 512 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
  Bank 7 contains 512 MB (Premium) DIMMS (enabled)
Integral SCSI controller 2: Version IDE (ATA/ATAPI) IOC4
Integral SCSI controller 0: Version QL12160, low voltage differential
  Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI controller 0 (unit 1)
Integral SCSI controller 1: Version QL12160, low voltage differential
IOC3/IOC4 serial port: tty3
IOC3/IOC4 serial port: tty4
IOC3/IOC4 serial port: tty5
IOC3/IOC4 serial port: tty6
Graphics board: SG2
Graphics board: SG2
Integral Gigabit Ethernet: tg0, module 001c01, PCI bus 1 slot 4
Iris Audio Processor: version EMU revision A4, number 1
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x10a9, device 0x100a) PCI slot 1
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1033, device 0x0035) PCI slot 2
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1033, device 0x0035) PCI slot 2
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1033, device 0x00e0) PCI slot 2
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1077, device 0x1216) PCI slot 3
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x14e4, device 0x1645) PCI slot 4
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1002, device 0x4e47) PCI slot 1
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1002, device 0x4e67) PCI slot 1
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1002, device 0x4e47) PCI slot 1
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1002, device 0x4e67) PCI slot 1
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1102, device 0x0004) PCI slot 1
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1102, device 0x7003) PCI slot 1
  PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1102, device 0x4001) PCI slot 1
IOC4 firmware revision 83
IOC3/IOC4 external interrupts: 1
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node/hub
HUB in Module 001c01/Slot 0: Revision 2 Speed 200.00 Mhz (enabled)
Location: /hw/module/001c02/node/hub
HUB in Module 001c02/Slot 0: Revision 2 Speed 200.00 Mhz (enabled)
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node/prom
IP35prom in Module 001c01/Slot n0: Revision 6.210
Location: /hw/module/001c02/node/prom
IP35prom in Module 001c02/Slot n0: Revision 6.210
USB controller: type OHCI
USB controller: type OHCI

[shrek]

I have a small question about the cards. Are these more or less standard cards you would get in a PC of the era or do they come with special firmware for SGI machines? Do they support running a full IRIX desktop? Some old ATI cards are better documented than SGI's ultra-proprietary graphics boards so it might be worth looking at for emulation.

[kaigan]

The cards do include an SGI-specific firmware. I have not yet been able to pull a copy of the SGI firmware from the FireGL X1 cards, although I do have a copy of the firmware used in the FireGL X3 cards from my Prism. I'll have to try again at some point, but that'll require me to get a working motherboard with an AGP Pro slot. The one I originally used died not too long after I bought it.

The ATI cards do provide a full IRIX desktop using XFree86 instead of the standard SGI X implementation. However, they do not support IRIS GL at all, only OpenGL. This breaks backwards compatibility for a lot of applications, and even period-appropriate software such as Maya 6.5 has some glitches that have to be accounted for and overcome.

[Raion]

The firegl cards are not well documented in this case, and the Origin 350/chimera systems are completely undocumented. The idea that it'll benefit emulation is rather poor, since we aren't gonna be able to hack together a franken system. SGI put sanity checks in the OS and PROM code so you can't piecemeal say, an r5000 with a firegl..

The firegls used here are not the same ones used in x86 systems and people experimented in the past with others. It didn't work out.

[Shiunbird]

The cards do include an SGI-specific firmware. I have not yet been able to pull a copy of the SGI firmware from the FireGL X1 cards, although I do have a copy of the firmware used in the FireGL X3 cards from my Prism. I'll have to try again at some point, but that'll require me to get a working motherboard with an AGP Pro slot. The one I originally used died not too long after I bought it.

I did manage to pull the firmware from the firegl in my C8000 for someone on youtube by booting Linux to a serial console.
If there's anyone in Europe with a similar card I can try it out.

[shrek]

The cards do include an SGI-specific firmware. I have not yet been able to pull a copy of the SGI firmware from the FireGL X1 cards, although I do have a copy of the firmware used in the FireGL X3 cards from my Prism. I'll have to try again at some point, but that'll require me to get a working motherboard with an AGP Pro slot. The one I originally used died not too long after I bought it.

The ATI cards do provide a full IRIX desktop using XFree86 instead of the standard SGI X implementation. However, they do not support IRIS GL at all, only OpenGL. This breaks backwards compatibility for a lot of applications, and even period-appropriate software such as Maya 6.5 has some glitches that have to be accounted for and overcome.

Interesting, thanks for the info! I had no idea that any SGI MIPS machines running IRIX ever used XFree86.

---

SGI put sanity checks in the OS and  PROM code so you can't piecemeal say, an r5000 with a firegl..

Is there any documentation on the boot process? I wonder how much of the PROM is actually required to start IRIX, or how much IRIX cares about the PROM.

[Raion]

Not directly, but I've figured out some of it:

Firstly, each kernel is unique and only builds modules relevant to the IP number of the system. This is also why, for instance, if you upgrade from MGRAS to Odyssey on an Octane, you need to reinstall the OS or at least specific subsystems. Many modules are blacklisted from working on specific IP numbers. I.e. you can't have a PCI driver on a system that never was equipped with it. You can fake this to some degree, but the drivers are not rated to work outside of specific configurations and I've found doing so can cause reliability issues.

The PROM is 100% necessary to start IRIX. There's a number of things that it sanity checks against itself and the kernel checks against it. The PROM reports all sorts of stuff like the buses, CPU speed, scsi bus etc.

You aren't going to be able to build a hacked system. GXEMUL cannot boot IRIX because it doesn't properly emulate the underlying hardware and that's enough to trip up the OS in boot. Until someone actually goes through with building a JIT for MAME R5k or something a lot of this discussion is going to be pointless since we're barely at 1/3 the speed of the slowest Indy. Indigo without the go indeed.