[Trippynet]

I disagree, because I think it's important to understand the cause of the problem and the way this works, in order to be able to fix it. And it's not just about fixing this in the UK or someplace that has the peak of the curve behind it. Other countries are just at the beginning of the curve. Being able to tell them exactly what happens when you screw up can save many lives. This is not a time for sugarcoating. Our past is their future and there is no time to waste.

A good response for example would be if the US or Europe would be leading the charge, helping other countries to implement effective measures to combat the virus. For the benefit of other countries, but also for our own benefit, because the virus will come back when travel restrictions are lifted.

As I told Raion, whether you as citizens want to reelect Trump or Johnson is all in the future and all your own business.

Don't get me wrong, understanding the cause is important to a degree right now, but there is a lot of finger pointing and blame-gaming going on which I don't feel is a priority right now. For example you have Trump and others spending their time blaming China, blaming the WHO, blaming wet-markets or a possible lab breach, and right now this isn't helping anyone. I know why Trump is doing it, it is to distract from his woeful handling of things. A case of "when the shit hits the fan, insist it is someone else's shit".

I have been in situations at work where we have a major problem or outage and some people seem to get transfixed into a mindset of "Who's fault is this? Who do we blame?", when the priority should be to understand and fix the problem first. You can point fingers later once the immediate threat is over.

[Raion]

For example you have Trump and others spending their time blaming China, blaming the WHO, blaming wet-markets or a possible lab breach, and right now this isn't helping anyone. I know why Trump is doing it, it is to distract from his woeful handling of things. A case of "when the shit hits the fan, insist it is someone else's shit". 

The WHO and China absolutely have culpability for this, including the Wuhan Virology Institute. This is not a conspiracy. This is a supported theory to the point that action is actively being taken on the theory. 

That being said, I know what you're saying. I don't think Trump has handled this particularly well, but I'm not quick to automatically support the opposition. In the US, it's hard to be in the middle (neither supporting the Republican or Democrats) but I try to, because they're both absolutely retarded. 

As long as this discussion stays civil like this, I'm quite alright with continuing it as long as we keep things as focused as possible. 

That sounds interesting, but I haven't seen it of course. I hope to spend a proper vacation in the US at some point and see a few things. But I guess the vast emptiness of some parts of the US is hard to experience in just a vacation.

I encourage it. I prefer the East Coast compared to other places. If you come to my neck of the woods (Virginia) hey, I'll treat you to lunch. Met a few irixnet guys over the years, and I enjoy the company generally speaking. Philly is a fun city. Richmond is full of history and often overlooked.

[Irinikus]

Regardless of the blame games being played by various parties, people are going to be financially fucked, when this is all said and done!!!! (BuyBuy unskilled workers!!!) Around about 40% of those who've lost their jobs in the US will not be returning to work! (This will probably be the same worldwide!)

The World needs more people like Elon Musk, launching rockets and less people working, what in my opinion are "charity jobs" (Jobs which have been obsolete for years!)

Things definitely need to change in our society, if we're ultimately going to make it as a spacefaring race!

[Trippynet]

Regardless of the blame games being played by various parties, people are going to be financially fucked, when this is all said and done!!!! (BuyBuy unskilled workers!!!) Around about 40% of those who've lost their jobs in the US will not be returning to work! (This will probably be the same worldwide!)

The World needs more people like Elon Musk, launching rockets and less people working, what in my opinion are "charity jobs" (Jobs which have been obsolete for years!)

Things definitely need to change in our society, if we're ultimately going to make it as a spacefaring race!

The US has always had an approach that makes it very easy to fire people, plus unlike a lot of European countries, they did not implement a job retention scheme. We have one in the UK (furlough scheme it is known as) which allows companies to put people onto leave with the government paying 80% of their salary. It will be scaled back in August (companies expected to pay a certain percentage of the salary) before ending at the end of October.

The result has been companies not firing people, bur furloughing them instead with the view that work would pick up again as lockdowns ease. Some people have of course lost their jobs unfortunately, but furlough has made a big difference in retaining jobs. Of course, what remains to be seen is just how work picks up for people and how many redundancies we may see as the scheme ends if work is still limited in some sectors.

[Irinikus]

The job losses are only going to occur when things reopen and people aren't spending! And all of that money printing is only going to result in hyper inflation!

There's no such thing as a free lunch!!!

The government doesn't have money, as it's paid for by the taxpayers, so how can any government pay people, with out long term repercussions?

Let's face it, brick and motor stores have been obsolete for years, e-commerce is here to stay, and people haven't adjusted accordingly! (This sector, well as the restaurant and hospitality sectors will be the most badly hit!)

Just think of the segment of the population that's engaged in these sectors?

[Raion]

The same way it always has. Issuing bonds and borrowing from foreign countries like Japan, China, and Europe. That's how the US runs. Any chance of austerity went bye-bye after WWII tbh.

[Irinikus]

The same way it always has. Issuing bonds and borrowing from foreign countries like Japan, China, and Europe. That's how the US runs. Any chance of austerity went bye-bye after WWII tbh.

let's see, my friend, the state's have never been in as much debt as they are in currently, and US bonds are about to have a negative yield, so who on earth would want to buy them?

The only thing keeping the US going at present is the fact that the Dollar is the world reserve currency. If that had to change, then the situation in the US would change very quickly!

[Raion]

I know. The US could turn insolvent at any time.

[lunatic]

Don't get me wrong, understanding the cause is important to a degree right now, but there is a lot of finger pointing and blame-gaming going on which I don't feel is a priority right now. For example you have Trump and others spending their time blaming China, blaming the WHO, blaming wet-markets or a possible lab breach, and right now this isn't helping anyone. I know why Trump is doing it, it is to distract from his woeful handling of things. A case of "when the shit hits the fan, insist it is someone else's shit".

Okay, but that's not any real assessment of the cause of the problem and it won't help you understand anything.
I really mean it's necessary to understand the problem. Following what Trump says is the opposite of just that. When Trump accused China of manufacturing the virus in a lab, scientists immediately stood up and called BS on that. It's a lie. I have no idea why this is still news.

This reminds me of those "flat-earthers" who believe that the earth is flat and that the idea of a round earth is all a conspiracy. I think last year one of those people wanted to strap himself to a home-build rocket, shoot himself up and take a picture of the flat earth to prove it. Maybe this guy is now also drinking isopropanol. Well, you can't help everybody.

Any serious discussion about the structure of the WHO or why Taiwan's containment strategy wasn't recognized better, all that is certainly worthy of discussion and it has been discussed already. The overall problem is that as soon as Trump touches a subject, it becomes sort of tainted for any serious discussion for the rest of us, because of how often he lies. Whenever Trump takes up an argument that's almost reasonable, he kills that argument for any reasonable discussion. This is just a result of people trying to maintain their mental hygiene. For example, rather than openly discussing the validity of Chinese data (I think they last reported like 6 daily new infections in a population of more than 1 billion people...), we just add an asterisk to the statistics "* some of these data may vary based on different assessment methods or may be intentionally manipulated" and go on with our lives. That's not how science or news should work. It would be much better if we had a serious discussion about this, because many Chinese researchers have published good studies enriching our understanding of COVID19. It is very important to know if it is really possible to contain the pandemic to the point where you have essentially no new infections. Most European countries still have a few hundred new infections every day.

@Raion: thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

[Irinikus]

Everyone's crying about all of the loss of life, but I challenge you to check Worldometer to see by how much the world population has grown so far this year!!! (WE NEED TO START REDUCING NUMBERS!!!)

This world has finite resources, and this largely idiotic human population cannot be allowed to continue to grow without restraint!

This is my belief, and you can argue the subject with me to your hearts content, but only about 10% of the current human population are actually needed, the rest are all just a burden to society!

Out of all the creatures on Earth, we are the only ones that harbour the weak among our ranks, and as a result, the human race is becoming more stupid by the day!

We are told it's a good thing, but I tell you, "Weakness is not a good thing ever!!!!"

What man needs more than anything, is a single objective, a focal point if you will! Like we had in the days of Babylon! (At the moment, all that exists is the rat-race, and man is going nowhere!) There must be a plan for the human race!

We're almost at the level, technologically, where we can recreate ourselves as we see fit (selecting only the best genes for our offspring), but this cannot be achieved with 7 to 8 billion of us on this planet!