In case it wasn't clear I wasn't actually advocating for YouTube directly, I was actually responding to the initial post asking for video ideas. Basic installation would be a good video idea for someone who wants to do videos.
There's a lot in this statement that I agree with however I don't believe that keeping the bar as high as it is, is one of them. Again I'll mention the important point that I made, the basic idea of familiarity. Even before any of us touched an SGI I know for me that I knew what SCSI was, I had used optical media before, I had basic networking knowledge at the time, and I had even done a little Linux dabbling before I got my first SGI, about two years worth actually.
So there was very much a horizontal movement to that learning.
Now pretend you never heard of any of those things, that stuff had long since been retired. Now you need to learn about something that involves those things but you need to just get started.
I agree with the fact that they need to be learned but when you keep piling up requirements right at the door to at least get something running that's when I start to express a concern. The barrier to entry is actually growing it's not shrinking. First you have the number of these discs and you have to know about the image issue, the fact that they're not normal ISOs. Either using them through emulation or properly burning them to media.
Then you have to know about the special booting requirements of 512 byte block, then you have to know about PS/2 peripherals, so you have to get them if they didn't come with the system you managed to salvage. And the fact that not all of those peripherals might actually work with an SGI, there's an outlying edge case where you would get a keyboard that's using the wrong dialect even if it's incredibly rare it happens.
Then there's the whole sync on green monitor issue, again 18 years ago this was a non-issue, now even if you go to a computer recycler you have to be careful to research what monitor supports sync on green correctly unless of course you're getting a ton of the video converters.
Then there's preparing your storage media, your machine probably came with a dead or broken hard drive and so now you need assistance with that.
Noticed even at this stage you haven't actually run anything yet. You don't even know if the system even works enough to be worth the effort.
I understand perseverance but it helps to have a little bit of indication that the process is going to work out by having the system turn on and make the right beeps and possibly run it through some sort of PROM diagnostic even in the absence of an operating system.
I know to a lot of of us it sounds like this is just par for the course and I'm not talking about making these irrelevant but as all the peripherals and all the interconnection technologies get older and older they become a new barrier entry when before you could find them everywhere they really weren't. So helping each part of this process Allows somebody to just get to a working or even semi-working stage quicker.
I freely admit that for most people getting their SGI fully working is sort of the thing they do, that once the system works they actually don't have a usage for it and that's the end of the journey. So I understand that the journey is fixing a lot of the stuff and learning about it as you go until everything's working perfectly.
I'm not proposing that that can be really shortcut at all, but the OS install has some pitfalls and with the last three or so people I helped it was very apparent that there was just some sort of disconnect when trying to explain the process with what we're using now.
I'm not going to push the stereotype that I'm just talking about an iPad generation, but it was a very valid example to some of the issues. I have run across 22-year-olds that do not understand files and folders in my professional dealings. I have run across Young people that didn't know there was any other connection other than HDMI or DisplayPort.
But you have to understand for us it's easy because we lived it. We were there during all these transitions and we saw them in real time. You're not learning about history you're remembering the past. And I think everyone here needs to keep that in mind when we're introducing these to people that come in with their newly acquired systems and are very excited about learning you don't just want to drop a huge boulder of Problems on them immediately and get them all discouraged.
Yes I think it's important to warn them that it's a hobby that cost money and yes you have the very real possibility of buying parts that don't work or drives that are already dead off eBay and things like that. Those are real possibilities just as if you were a vintage car collector trying to get your vintage car back on the road.
I'm just mentioning that if somebody wants to create videos anyway, the topic of just setting up the system and getting things going is a big topic. And it could use some videos if somebody really wants to do videos.
(08-08-2025, 11:35 AM)mapesdhs Wrote: Eek, my old pages stirring the mud. 
Is it the vanilla 6.5 info page you're all referring to? ie. this one?
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/6.5inst.html
True enough, there are many aspects it doesn't mention, the GUI stuff, user accounts, etc., but then a lot of this is covered in my Unix Admin Course. 
I did create a different document that was included with custom CDR sets, namely this (plus an equivalent for 6.5.22, just change the URL to see the equivalent file):
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/sgidepot/6.5.30instreadme.txt
Since it uses product selections files, included with my Gifts CD, it means there are *no* conflicts to worry about, and it covers a lot more than the above old page does.
What I could do is add the product selections files to my Depot Resources page for anyone to use, adapt the file into a more general guide.
Btw, the install topic aside, it's interesting what Weblacky is saying about the apparent perceived need to cater for "newcomers", it shows how the nature of the SGI hobbyist landscape is changing, but I suspect some may see some aspects of how people think things should adjust as a sort of dumbing-down of expectations. I'm not sure it's wise to alter too much the nature of things to pander to a "controlled environment" generation who, if that's genuinely what they're used to and find contrary environments uncomfortable, won't exactly take so well to the inherant nature of older computers anyway. One could make the argument that the basic nature of how older computuers were used, what one was expected to know or at least learn if need be, just is what it is. One can adjust to some degree of course, but the hand holding can go too far. Better perhaps to say, put the ipad down, if someone wants to get into these old computers then surely it's logical to delve into the mindset that surrounded them at the time in an authentic manner, if that is such is the goal. Otherwise the experience is a sham, an illusion, like a West World resort.
I often say in emails that a mistake many hobbyists make is dismissing the command line shell, because they're too used to GUI stuff. Pandering to a 'modern audience' in the way described would just make that worse. It doesn't have to be an either/or, but getting to know what these systems were really like at the time and how they were used in the way they were surely has merit, because that's a fundamental part of what they were (I've dealt with a great many ex-company machines, usage via the shell was very common). Otherwise we end up creating a fake notion of what SGIs were (or anything else), because it gets layered on top with modern simplified modes of convenience. Yes some pro uses of SGIs were all-GUI, but others were not; some presented only their dedicated interface and nothing else (the user never saw the underlying IRIX at all), like Discreet for example, others required the use of IRIX. I talked to company folk who didn't even know they were using SGIs.
I don't think the next generation is that dumb. Not only do I think they are perfectly capable of learning "the old ways", a great many might actually find it both a refreshing change and very educational, because that is surely part of the whole thing. Afterall, these days there does appear to be a pushback against the scale and depth of the tech explosion going on, attitudes are shifting. Let's not underestimate Gen Alpha's capacity or desire to learn; they may actually prefer the authentic experience, rather than the sanitised version. Beware of misplaced altruism.
The early 90s was a huge crossover point in the nature of many technologies, especially storage. The shift from tapes and floppies to other things, for example. If we disuade newcomers too much from delving into the nuance of how old systems work, how can we ever expect them to gain any passion for the even older or complex stuff like 4D Series, Onyx, Challenge, Crimson, PI, etc.? It would be a shame if the SGI landscape shifted just to the "easy" systems like O2 or Indy on the back of thinking one ought to reduce the complexity from a belief that unfamiliarity with old ways precludes an ability or desire to learn them.
I think it's better in general to preserve the nature of what SGIs were in their original form, encourage those who want to learn about them to do so in context, because otherwise much of the contemporary usage nuance of the 1990s is lost. I understand the appeal of modern addons like SD card adapters and all the rest of it (I've used ZuluSCSI), but going down that route as a norm means removing from the SGI legacy fundamental aspects of what they were and how they were used. Back in the day, people had to deal with DLT, DAT, QIC, etc., then later CDROM. It concerns me that trying to make everything too "easy" may dilute what ought to be the option for a more original experience. It's the same with modern emulators for consoles like the N64, or old home micros like the C64. I'm glad they exist for those who want to use them (with obvious advantages for modern coding), but I prefer to use original hardware because for me that was and still is fundamental to their appeal. I think SGIs are in a similar position, they are a manifestation of an era of tech that was in transition; how they were used at the time is a part of what they were, and thus of understanding their nature. Also essential for some of the machines which are just inherantly complicated.
I intend creating a guide on how to install IRIX from hard disk. Afterall, it's how I do it; largely automated, no CD swapping, very quick. But the experience is very different to installing from CDs, using a disk doesn't provide the same sense of what it was like to install IRIX back in the day. The guide will be useful for those who just want to get it done, but not what I would recommend for those who want to learn about SGIs more broadly and experience them in a more authentic context.
Hence I think we need to strike a balance, conveyed in some manner so that users understand that although there is some option X to get something done that is easy and quick, it isn't how it used to be done, it's not the authentic experience, so if they want the latter then there's also option Y; and often variations inbetween.
What people want from SGIs varies enormously, it's a vast spectrum. I've talked to hundreds down the years; some use SGIs in a way which would not appeal to others at all. Some care about the hw, others more the sw or coding. Some just like the aesthetics, others relish the challenge of restoration & repair, after which they sell the systems on or give them away (using them isn't for them, they just like fixing them up). Some like to install the OS from scratch, they want to understand how it works. Others just want to get a setup ready to use straight away with everything preconfigured (that's the crowd I mainly cater to). Some just want to run specific pro applications from long ago, others want to learn about the OS. These days some are retired professionals, they used SGIs back in the day and want to relive those times, they already know about them.
Thus, there's nothing wrong with presenting a guide that enables an easy method for installing the OS, but I don't think that should be the encouraged norm. However, that doesn't mean my old guide can't be improved; heck, my entire site needs a revamp, it's awash with dead links (plans underway).
Lastly, I have to point out the irony of modern modes of information provision (like YT) being of a form that cannot actually be viewed on an SGI. This is why my site remains stubbornly plain old HTML, though next year there may be the first links to video content that's offsite, or downloads that need a PC or whatever to play them (I have many original VHS tapes to digitise).
Ian.
NEED -> 
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