[Irinikus]

I totally agree with you!

But at some point things will normalise, and you may need some resources which can only be found in the urban areas, but going there would probably be akin to a Mad Max movie though! YOU'D DEFINITELY NEED TO BE ARMED TO THE TEETH!!!

[vishnu]

The people who may be able to survive the looming apocalypse are probably the ones who are currently living off the land, or, more to the point, the people who are today living as all humans lived a thousand years ago; the uncontacted tribes in the Amazon basin and on North Sentinel Island for example. Somewhat ironic that people who are still living in the stone age are better positioned to survive than we are.

[robespierre]

the people who are today living as all humans lived a thousand years ago; the uncontacted tribes in the Amazon basin and on North Sentinel Island for example. Somewhat ironic that people who are still living in the stone age are better positioned to survive than we are.

Without meaning to be argumentative, those people do not have agriculture using draft animals, which was widespread in other regions for many thousands of years. So a thousand years is rather too short a window for comparison.
The ancestors of the Amazon tribes were highly advanced civilizations which also did not have draft animals, but they developed an alternative technology that was even more impressive. Search "terra preta" if you want to dive down that rabbithole.

[Shiunbird]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family

This is a rather modern example of survival in a very hostile environment. I always thought Siberia of a good survival destination - and the already mentioned Amazon. Both options are a far after-collapse option. The problem is, in my opinion, to survive the initial chaos, where there's too many reasonably-fed people, with way too many available fuel and ammunition, but unable, due to circumstance or knowledge, to feed themselves.

With my brother, we came to the conclusion that less than 10 people and 25.000m2 should hold - enough people to stay awaken to protect, enough hands to work the land - but then, maybe still not enough to survive the beginning. This will come down to a good amount of luck, I think.

[Raion]

I held off from arguing/stepping in/participating because I wanted to ensure that my responses were measured, careful, and thoughtful.

My view is in the event of a total societal breakdown the die-off of people will be in the following brackets:

First two weeks - people dying from rioting, looting, raids, police brutality etc. that all ensues from anarchy.

First ninety days - people starving/dehydrating to death. People dying from disease/sanitation issues.

First year - people dying from low-level conflicts, exposure from seasonal changes, and from gangs that will be searching for and securing resources.

The keys, IMHO, to surviving, are:

1. Stay out of large cities.

2. Have a helpful, cooperative community. I don't mean a hippie commune or ranch -- I mean a neighborhood or group of families all specialized enough to handle tasks that are needed around a farm or other food/resource producing thing

3. Form trade networks. People who can exchange resources as needed. Food, fuel, materials, medical supplies, etc. You need all of it.

4. Be smart. Keep your wits about you. Be armed and be prepared.

The ones who die are the ones who don't prepare. I don't know if it's likely for such an event to happen. I surely hope not, but I also didn't expect the mess in Kabul, or the way online culture is now, where you state the wrong opinion on some current event and you're demonized forever.

[shrek]

I have enough food and water to last two weeks. Maybe three if I really stretch it. If things get bad enough I'm just going to take some basic supplies and my gf with me and wait out the mess in a large national park and try to build a little viking house or whatever. I do own guns but I would be most worried about bringing one of my bows for hunting so that I'm not attracting unwanted attention.

I have zero intentions of participating in any wild west Walmart shootouts with tweakers who really want that last can of tuna.

[jan-jaap]

If you want to know what starvation does to the population of a developed country, look into the 1944-45 Dutch Hongerwinter (Dutch famine of '44-'45).

Context:
In 1944, after 4 years of war, the Allied forced were advancing north from France into the south of The Netherlands (Operation Market Garden). The primary objective wasn't to liberate The Netherlands, but to forge a path into the German Ruhr Area, where a lot of the Nazi heavy industry was. The Allies wanted to capture the bridges over all major rivers, and they failed to capture the last one at Arnhem. So the Allied forces were in control of the south of The Netherlands, the Germans held everything north of the Rhine, and the area between the rivers Rhine and Waal became a no-go area. The families of both my parents (then babies / small children) lived there.

My mother's family escaped north to family with a farm in Frisia, a journey of nearly 200km, mostly on foot with a family of 12 children, some of them still babies. My father's family escaped south to Nijmegen, held by the Allies.

People in the cities in the west of The Netherlands were not so lucky. Supply of food to the cities broke down due to the war, the harsh winter and strikes. But the world didn't collapse into a scene from Mad Max. People didn't hide in private shelters with guns and canned food.  Even if you had a gun you'd better hide it, because if the Nazis found out they would have had you executed. And what do think would happen if everybody was slowly turning skinny and skeletal but you mysteriously weren't? You'd be ratted out and you'd be shot. You could try to flea to the country side but it's not like the farming communities withing walking distance were willing to provide shelter and food for a couple of million people. Plus all your property would likely be looted and destroyed. So what did people do? They tried to place their small children with family and friends in the countryside and toughed it out. Many didn't make it.