[Raion]

Been thinking about an idea of a "web within the web" where we have a central search engine ala Altavista or early Yahoo retro-styled with clean, but usable HTML and CSS (but the CSS fails over to basic HTML)

The concept I have of such a web enclave is as follows:

10-20 forums/message boards for various topics that all collectively conform to a certain standard of conduct and userbase.
A basic video download site ala early Youtube, no ads, no revenue
Some basic social boards ala http://retrohub.herokuapp.com/
A news aggregator that handpicks news that isn't sensational or propaganda
etc.

Sort of like a small enclave for those of us fed up with the larger internet, the commoditization, and such, and a retreat that's not indexed on larger search engines and only spread by word of mouth. An informal group of communities where we don't have the screaming/neogaf-type content, or the drama stemming from politics. 

I dunno. I'm nostalgic for the old web. But stuff like I2P, tor, etc. are loaded with the likes of 8chan/dailystormer content which I'm absolutely not interested in, and has negative connotations due to use by criminals. 

Something more akin to 90s/early 2000s internet that runs on old systems, and has relaxed community standards with healthy, ethical moderation.

Am I preaching to the choir? or to a group of crickets? I have taken short breaks (2-3 days) from the majority of the internet for my mental health, but I think the biggest barrier is a lack of services. I'm proud of IRIXNet, I really am, but we are a small portion of a larger picture.

And I'm not sitting here just spitballing. If we had a large enough coalition, I'd gladly help fund, maintain and keep such a venture around.

[commodorejohn]

It's an interesting notion, and one I've contemplated myself at times. However, I'm not sure that it provides anything you can't already get simply by filtering out the nonsense yourself. Most of the communities I can think of (that I frequent, anyway) that seem like good candidates for such an enclave pretty much already match what they'd be in such a system - places like here, VCFed, MuffWiggler, etc. are basically already free of the crap, due to judicious moderation and overall solid user culture, which is a significant part of why I frequent those places in the first place.

I dunno, maybe it's just because I've never been hooked into the socialtweetface and the mytwitch and the whatnot, but it seems to me that all that mental spam can still self-select out of your life, if you let it.

Addendum: on further consideration, this strikes me as essentially a revival of the old "webring" concept, which isn't a bad idea - I'm just not sure there's much to be gained in pursuing a total segregation from the broader Internet.

[Raion]

It's an interesting notion, and one I've contemplated myself at times. However, I'm not sure that it provides anything you can't already get simply by filtering out the nonsense yourself. Most of the communities I can think of (that I frequent, anyway) that seem like good candidates for such an enclave pretty much already match what they'd be in such a system - places like here, VCFed, MuffWiggler, etc. are basically already free of the crap, due to judicious moderation and overall solid user culture, which is a significant part of why I frequent those places in the first place.

I dunno, maybe it's just because I've never been hooked into the socialtweetface and the mytwitch and the whatnot, but it seems to me that all that mental spam can still self-select out of your life, if you let it.

Addendum: on further consideration, this strikes me as essentially a revival of the old "webring" concept, which isn't a bad idea - I'm just not sure there's much to be gained in pursuing a total segregation from the broader Internet.

I'm inspired by a few towns near me that have rejected walmart and dollar general and developed a robust set of general stores:

A mom and pops food store that carries a mix of major brands and local products, and offers hot food to go as well

A computer and game store

And a number of other small businesses. In the face of total commodification and commercialism, they turned their backs, and thus far, they're winning. 

The same concept should apply here. An enclave against the tide of the internet. There exist a few groups on a smaller scale in other languages that have discussed similar concepts.

I dunno, it's just me thinking aloud.

[sgt_barnes]

Hey everybody,

I find that idea very appealing.

It could be done by setting up a search engine and letting it index sites on site admin request and operator approval. This way, it would only find stuff that fits into the picture, and would still be open enough to gain wide traction.

Granted, at first, the use of that search engine would be minimal, but it could grow fast!

[Raion]

Hey everybody,

I find that idea very appealing.

It could be done by setting up a search engine and letting it index sites on site admin request and operator approval. This way, it would only find stuff that fits into the picture, and would still be open enough to gain wide traction.

Granted, at first, the use of that search engine would be minimal, but it could grow fast!

The idea is the search engine, and word of mouth, are the sole entry vectors into the enclave. At first, a simple listing would probably be alright in lieu of a search engine, ala something that has a number of categories and you can simply click to the category to see who has what. 
I would be happy if such an idea would be possible. But of course, as I said, we'd need some compliance factors and stuff so that site quality remains high and user engagement remains in our primary audience.

[GeekLucanis]

Would this be hosted remotely, or someones homelab server? I am all for a minimal retro internet, as I own more than just old SGIs that can Somewhat browse the modern web.
I am also really keen on the idea that peoples personal sites could be in this, if they are HTML1 or similar, of course.

[sgt_barnes]

The idea is the search engine, and word of mouth, are the sole entry vectors into the enclave. At first, a simple listing would probably be alright in lieu of a search engine, ala something that has a number of categories and you can simply click to the category to see who has what.

Yeah! Setting up a page (or rather a tree of pages) that has clickable categories should probably be enough at first, and be browseable with the good, old nineties' browsers, like Nescape 4.7. Since it probably would be ok to have it unencrypted, we shouldn't need the TLS the web 2.0 is based on, which causes IMHO most of the problems with old browsers.

Sounds a lot like good, old yahoo! to me, but I think that's the point, right? Without the bling-bling and the commercials, of course.

And does that answer part of your question too, GeekLucanis?

I would be happy if such an idea would be possible. But of course, as I said, we'd need some compliance factors and stuff so that site quality remains high and user engagement remains in our primary audience.

Like the irixnet.org's site rules? I agree with these totally, and I think this could well be a good starting point.

Though I sometimes *do* miss the old nekochan political discussions, which provided me with lots of valuable insights into how people in other countries really tick, without taking too much of an active role in those. But I see why it was left out if irixnet. All in all, the civil tone on our forum is one of its key assets, and that clearly wasn't so over at nekochan. 

So, yes, let's start with that. Or did I not really understand what you ment there?

[Raion]

Yeah, you got the basic idea. A very basic site compliance and community guideline standard.

I'm less than inclined to allow more political discussion off the bat because every thread would be an argument over Trump or Sanders or Israel or Palestine etc. You get a lot of repeated topics ad nauseum and there's a few users here that aren't as keen on that being a part of their daily value of IRIXNET. That is something I want to avoid is alienating those users. The COVID-19 thread is an exception because it's a public health crisis and everyone is scared.

That being said, I want to branch us out into other sites eventually, and even fund a few sites to help spring up some sort of ecosystem. I'll consider one where we can speak our minds even freer.

[sgt_barnes]

I'm less than inclined to allow more political discussion off the bat because every thread would be an argument over Trump or Sanders or Israel or Palestine etc. You get a lot of repeated topics ad nauseum and there's a few users here that aren't as keen on that being a part of their daily value of IRIXNET. That is something I want to avoid is alienating those users. The COVID-19 thread is an exception because it's a public health crisis and everyone is scared.

Yes, I know, and I appreciate that. And only the first ten Trump-Israel arguments were somewhat entertaining.

I didn't also really mean to change that for us, but there may be other places on the net where this kind of stuff gets discussed in a temperate manner so that nobody there is driven away. I'd love to have this place in the index.

That being said, I want to branch us out into other sites eventually, and even fund a few sites to help spring up some sort of ecosystem. I'll consider one where we can speak our minds even freer.

Ah, I think that will cover that!

[Raion]

I'll be talking with other people too, to see what we can come up with if I ever decide to be a founding partner in a venture like this.