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What VGA monitors will work with an Indy? - Printable Version

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What VGA monitors will work with an Indy? - desperate - 02-16-2025

Hi,

I've purchased a 13W3-to-VGA cable, but plugging it in to my Indy and to my Dell U2412M gives me this error message on the U2412M: "The current input timing is not supported by the monitor display. Please change your input timing to 1920x1200@60Hz or any other monitor listed timing as per the monitor specifications."

Checking the monitor manual, I see it supports 1280x1024 at 64.0kHz horizontal / 60Hz vertical, and from what I can tell the Indy is sending out a 1280x1024 (76Hz vertical) signal.

In the "modern sync on green monitors that can be reccomended" thread (at https://forums.irixnet.org/thread-382-page-3.html) it's mentioned that the U2412M should be a good choice, so what do I need to do to get it working?

I have no other monitor to try with, and my TV doesn't have VGA input, so I can't really change anything in the Indy to make things work. I need some solution on the display end of things.

RE: What VGA monitors will work with an Indy? - robespierre - 02-16-2025

If you switch the Indy to use a "low-resolution" display at startup (which was supported, they sold some of them with 15" CRT monitors, as well as Presenter overhead panels), it will use a resolution of 1024x768 @ 60 Hz. You do this by performing "unsetenv monitor" at the PROM command prompt. This way, you will be able to see the boot messages.
The resolution used by IRIX after booting is controlled with the setmon(1M) command. If you issue "setmon -x 60HZ" at a root shell prompt, it will store the setting for 1280x1024 @ 60 Hz as the default for the future.

RE: What VGA monitors will work with an Indy? - desperate - 03-08-2025

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. A late update, and plea for more help:

I'm looking at https://techpubs.jurassic.nl/library/manuals/2000/007-2859-021/sgi_html/ch09.html for help with Command Monitor usage.

I'm connecting the 13W3-to-VGA cable to the Indy and my Dell U2412M monitor.

Turning on the Indy I hear the boot tune (faintly), and press Esc immediately after that.

I then press "5" and Enter, and hope I'm in the Command Monitor.

Then I perform "unsetenv monitor". Nothing happens on the monitor.

I try "init". Nothing happens on the monitor.

I try "exit" to get back to the System Maintenance Menu, and then press "5" and Enter to get back to the Command Monitor. Nothing happens on the monitor.

I'm working in the dark, as I've found no adapters to go from VGA to a connector my TV has. So the only way I've found to check whether I've managed to enter the Command Monitor or not (i.e. if I've timed the Esc press correctly) is the "off" command, which sometimes works and sometimes not.

Turning the computer on again after a successful "off" command, I still get a blank monitor, even though I must have been in the Command Monitor when I entered "off", and before entering "off" I performed "unsetenv monitor". So "unsetenv monitor" does not give the expected result.

So, any ideas as to how to proceed? Any sequence of commands and keypresses that should get me a working VGA signal?

Also, some questions:

1. I've tried the "ping" command, with a TP cable to a laptop. The LED on the TP connector on the laptop turns on, so there is a link. But just trying "ping 192.168.1.1" doesn't work, the tcpdump on the laptop shows nothing. "setenv netaddr 192.168.1.2" and then "ping 192.168.1.1" also doesn't work. According to the instructions the "setenv netaddr" command is just for bootp booting, is that correct? In that case, how is one supposed to use the "ping" command?

2. There's a "-p" flag to the setenv command, but not to the "unsetenv" command. Does "unsetenv monitor" survive exiting to the System Maintenance Menu (with "exit") and then pressing "5"+Enter to get back to the Command Monitor? Does "unsetenv monitor" survive an "off" command and then pressing the power button to start the system again (the power cable to the Indy is plugged in throughout this)?

3. Is there any way, other than the "off" and "ping" commands, to somehow check whether I've even managed to enter the Command Monitor?

RE: What VGA monitors will work with an Indy? - desperate - 03-08-2025

OK, small update:

I've managed to make the Indy attempt bootp, so I can verify that I've managed to enter the Command Monitor. No need to set any IP address with "setenv netaddr", just following these steps:
1. press Esc immediately after hearing the boot tune.
2. press "5" and Enter.
3. run "boot -f bootp()/blah".
tcpdump output on laptop shows that the Indy first sends an ARP request and then four bootp requests to 255.255.255.255:67.

So now I know I'm in the Command Monitor, but running "unsetenv monitor" doesn't make the monitor wake up, nor does any of all the combinations of "init" and "exit" and "off" and rebooting and reentering the Command Monitor that I have tried.

Of course there's always the chance that the cable doesn't work, but given the error message on the Dell monitor I think it's working, it's just that my Indy stubbornly refuses to send a signal that the monitor can handle.

Any ideas?

RE: What VGA monitors will work with an Indy? - robespierre - 03-08-2025

The boot environment is what runs from the EPROM on the mainboard (firmware). If, after pushing the power button, and watching for the power light to turn green, you hit the "escape" key, then the "5" key, the command prompt is listening forthwith (sometimes called the "PROM" but that is ambiguous). That is where "unsetenv monitor" is applicable.
The IRIX root prompt, however, is only available after the system boots, and stores its settings on the root partition, not in NVRAM on the mainboard. So using "setmon -x 60HZ" to change IRIX's graphics setting is not going to work unless IRIX has been installed to disk. It will not work if you have simply netbooted the kernel: there is no root partition.
You can, however, change the graphics setting for the current session by issuing the "setmon -n 60HZ" command to the root shell prompt. This should at least let you see if the graphics output is working with your display.

RE: What VGA monitors will work with an Indy? - weblacky - 03-08-2025

I only know of one 13W3 to VGA cable on the market, the one with dip switches you can get through https://www.cablesonline.com/613mtohdmsvg.html, that works with SGI's. In the USA they also sell this cable through eBay and Amazon. You can check to see if you're in a similar situation. Otherwise the link above is for the original vendor. I have about six of these cables hopefully the never stop making them.

Every other SGI I've owned prior to this cable coming on the market used a separate small adapter and then a VGA cable. And back in my earlier days I only had one of these adapters so they were shared among all my computers.

So I'm going to conclude, in the absence of any further evidence, that what you have is a SUN Microsystems adapter cable. And I say that because pretty much 99% of all the 13w3 cables I ever encountered were actually designed for SUN.

SUN had much larger market penetration than SGI ever did. By orders of magnitude higher. So it's not unusual that their cables became the dominant 13W3 cable in the wild. It's a shame that they're not wired exactly the same. I've seen some websites that rumor that you could break off a pin or two on a SUN cable and make it work with some SGI systems. But I have no direct knowledge of this.

RE: What VGA monitors will work with an Indy? - robespierre - 03-08-2025

(03-08-2025, 06:20 PM)weblacky Wrote:  SUN had much larger market penetration than SGI ever did. By orders of magnitude higher.
This market report from SunWorld in 1996 says that Sun's market share was between 4–5 times SGI's. Almost five times as many machines but just four times the revenue (reflecting Sun's heavier focus on entry-level workstations like SPARCstation ELC and IPX).

You could argue that Sun's workstation business lasted longer, but I think they actually were active for exactly the same period. Both companies were formed in 1982, and their last real workstations (the Tezro and the Blade 2500/Ultra 45) were in 2006.

RE: What VGA monitors will work with an Indy? - desperate - 03-08-2025

(03-08-2025, 06:15 PM)robespierre Wrote:  The boot environment is what runs from the EPROM on the mainboard (firmware). If, after pushing the power button, and watching for the power light to turn green, you hit the "escape" key, then the "5" key, the command prompt is listening forthwith (sometimes called the "PROM" but that is ambiguous). That is where "unsetenv monitor" is applicable.
The IRIX root prompt, however, is only available after the system boots, and stores its settings on the root partition, not in NVRAM on the mainboard. So using "setmon -x 60HZ" to change IRIX's graphics setting is not going to work unless IRIX has been installed to disk. It will not work if you have simply netbooted the kernel: there is no root partition.
You can, however, change the graphics setting for the current session by issuing the "setmon -n 60HZ" command to the root shell prompt. This should at least let you see if the graphics output is working with your display.
There's no hard drive in the Indy yet, I'm still just trying to get a working signal to the monitor, so any root shell commands will have to wait.

I was under the impression that "unsetenv monitor" would make the Command Monitor visible on the monitor, so I could continue from there and see output from bootp attempts. At least after an "exit" and then pressing "5" again, or perhaps an "init" in the Command Monitor would be enough to make the video output 60Hz instead of 76Hz. Apparently not.

Once I have working video output I'm going to connect an old SCSI drive I hope is till working, and a SCSI CD-ROM drive I haven't used in at least 20 years. But there's no point in connecting them now if I can't see anything on the monitor.
(03-08-2025, 06:20 PM)weblacky Wrote:  I only know of one 13W3 to VGA cable on the market, the one with dip switches you can get through https://www.cablesonline.com/613mtohdmsvg.html, that works with SGI's. In the USA they also sell this cable through eBay and Amazon. You can check to see if you're in a similar situation. Otherwise the link above is for the original vendor. I have about six of these cables hopefully the never stop making them.

Every other SGI I've owned prior to this cable coming on the market used a separate small adapter and then a VGA cable. And back in my earlier days I only had one of these adapters so they were shared among all my computers.

So I'm going to conclude, in the absence of any further evidence, that what you have is a SUN Microsystems adapter cable.  And I say that because pretty much 99% of all the 13w3 cables I ever encountered were actually designed for SUN.

SUN had much larger market penetration than SGI ever did. By orders of magnitude higher. So it's not unusual that their cables became the dominant 13W3 cable in the wild. It's a shame that they're not wired exactly the same. I've seen some websites that rumor that you could break off a pin or two on a SUN cable and make it work with some SGI systems. But I have no direct knowledge of this.
I think (hope) I have an SGI cable, I purchased it through eBay from a guy who also had other SGI Indy cables for sale. He listed them specifically mentioning SGI Indy which is why I'm hoping they're wired correctly.

I intend to test the cable with my multimeter, but there are different pinouts described on different webpages so I'm unsure which one is correct, for example there's https://forums.irixnet.org/thread-382-post-18849.html#pid18849 and https://wiki.preterhuman.net/13w3_to_VGA . Is there an authorative webpage for the correct 13W3-to-VGA pinout?

My multimeter's probes aren't thin enough to measure inner A1/A2/A3 so I can't check all pins without some extra thin pins (staples perhaps), but I'll also have to set up my vice to hold the cable connectors since my hands aren't steady enough to hold the cables and apply the probes to pins at the same time.

RE: What VGA monitors will work with an Indy? - robespierre - 03-09-2025

Unless the cable is totally broken, A1–A3 should be fine. The pinout in my post that you linked appears to be the same as in the other link: how do they differ?