Damage my Octane :( - Printable Version
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Damage my Octane :( - megaimg - 12-03-2021
So, couple of day ago, I was able to restore an Octane SI, repair the PSU and is was working. Today I got a second unit was not working. So, I decide to use couple of parts from that unit to upgrade my working unit. First, Graphic Card with MPG Encoder, PCI Expansion, and SCSI Module and Memory... Everything was working great until I decide to swap CPU. the working unit had 1 CPU, and the other unit had 2 CPU...Swap it, but at power on, something burns, now I have two unit not working... for me is the Front Plane board...what do you guys think...I know I made a mistake...got to exited.
For Dual Processor, do you need a specific Front Plane version?
RE: Damage my Octane :( - weblacky - 12-04-2021
I can tell you that front plane (Xbow), PSU, and graphics ARE tied to minimal versions going into Octane2 and backported into Octane! Parts released around Octane2 were backwards compatible with Octane...provided you had certain part revisions and HIGHER (including PSU...but PSU is one area I've seen this rule broken and still work).
Other users will NEED fill in my missing gaps. But I know the frontline Xbow and graphics are VERY tied together.
Any Octane with V10 or V12 Graphics MUST have a V1.4 Xbow and a higher wattage Cherokee PSU.
Any Octane with a V6 or V8 Graphics MUST have a V1.3 Xbow or higher and a higher wattage Cherokee (I've personally seen the Cherokee requirement ignored and it will work...provided total system load is low (like no PCI cage and only one HDD and such).
There were two mainboards released, first revision has a max for 2GB of RAM (that's what mine have...) and the second version (used in Octane2 as well) can support 8GB. Some people believe the earlier mainboard cannot be used with later processors (but if that includes the 400 Mhz or not is a guess): https://bukosek.si/hardware/collection/sgi-octane.html#hw-configs
I'm also pretty darn sure the newer backplane will accept an older mainboard without issue. However I don't think the converse is true...I don't think you can (or should) use a later model mainboard with a Xbow less than 1.3? Maybe even 1.4v? Someone please help me on this.
I can tell you my older-revision mainboards run DUAL 300Mhz CPUs, so they can at least do that!
While things happen, please (in the future) do not start swapping parts from SGIs without doing the research. Systems that went through several revisions (Indigo, Indigo2, Octane) have parts that will fit but either not work or will cause damage (as you just found out). In the future, please read the SGI part numbers and make sure there isn't a known issue due to hardware revisions. This is very well documented for the three systems I just mentioned above. Also it's safe to assume people don't do this kind of swapping, so complete systems are often fine to assume the parts work together. Remember, SGIs were designed to have a service technician and service contract to do this. They were not designed or warrantied to prevent damage due to authorized changes (without consulting SGI), I mean you can even insert the ENTIRE peripheral module of an Octane upside down!!! Granted, the system will be okay and tell you this...but that fact that you CAN do it, tells you there are few if ANY safeguards for being wrong in an SGI.
RE: Damage my Octane :( - megaimg - 12-04-2021
(12-04-2021, 02:01 AM)weblacky Wrote: I can tell you that front plane (Xbow), PSU, and graphics ARE tied to minimal versions going into Octane2 and backported into Octane! Parts released around Octane2 were backwards compatible with Octane...provided you had certain part revisions and HIGHER (including PSU...but PSU is one area I've seen this rule broken and still work).Ýes, learn the hard way! So mad! Everything was working until I put the CPU module.
Other users will NEED fill in my missing gaps. But I know the frontline Xbow and graphics are VERY tied together.
Any Octane with V10 or V12 Graphics MUST have a V1.4 Xbow and a higher wattage Cherokee PSU.
Any Octane with a V6 or V8 Graphics MUST have a V1.3 Xbow or higher and a higher wattage Cherokee (I've personally seen the Cherokee requirement ignored and it will work...provided total system load is low (like no PCI cage and only one HDD and such).
There were two mainboards released, first revision has a max for 2GB of RAM (that's what mine have...) and the second version (used in Octane2 as well) can support 8GB. Some people believe the earlier mainboard cannot be used with later processors (but if that includes the 400 Mhz or not is a guess): https://bukosek.si/hardware/collection/sgi-octane.html#hw-configs
I'm also pretty darn sure the newer backplane will accept an older mainboard without issue. However I don't think the converse is true...I don't think you can (or should) use a later model mainboard with a Xbow less than 1.3? Maybe even 1.4v? Someone please help me on this.
I can tell you my older-revision mainboards run DUAL 300Mhz CPUs, so they can at least do that!
While things happen, please (in the future) do not start swapping parts from SGIs without doing the research. Systems that went through several revisions (Indigo, Indigo2, Octane) have parts that will fit but either not work or will cause damage (as you just found out). In the future, please read the SGI part numbers and make sure there isn't a known issue due to hardware revisions. This is very well documented for the three systems I just mentioned above. Also it's safe to assume people don't do this kind of swapping, so complete systems are often fine to assume the parts work together. Remember, SGIs were designed to have a service technician and service contract to do this. They were not designed or warrantied to prevent damage due to authorized changes (without consulting SGI), I mean you can even insert the ENTIRE peripheral module of an Octane upside down!!! Granted, the system will be okay and tell you this...but that fact that you CAN do it, tells you there are few if ANY safeguards for being wrong in an SGI.
RE: Damage my Octane :( - jwhat - 12-04-2021
Hi Megaimg,
from recollection with some Octane Dual CPU modules (Dual 195 MHz) being oldest and possibly Dual 360 MHz also need to have a 1467 version of the system board. So it is not just XBOW and Power Supply that are needed.
A genuine Octane2 should have: 1467 Systems Board, XBOW 1.4 & Cherokee Power Supply.
Sorry to hear that you Octane got killed, maybe start a thread "Follow me down the rabbit hole of Octane system board repair" to borrow from WebLacky's journey with Fuel PIMM ;-)
EDIT: Doing some reading, I think it was possible that the 270 MHZ and 360 MHz modules had issue with older system boards, due to the speed multiplier/divider problem, but I cannot find anything definitive.... anyhow seems as you have 195 Mhz in 0887 board this was unlikely to be issue, but dual 360 MHZ in older board could be
Cheers from Oz,
jwhat/John
RE: Damage my Octane :( - megaimg - 12-04-2021
So I got the second unit working with my first unit Logic Board....
XBOW 1.3
Logic Board 030-0887-005 Rev A
With 1CPU R10K at 195mhz
EMXI Graphic Card
The second unit logic board is the same but Rev B - This one is bad, but has the Dual CPU...Can I move the CPU to the working Logic Board?
The First Unit XOBX 1.2 and that one I think XBOW was unable to handle the power requirement of the 2 CPU when I put it on the logic board.- I think using the 2 CPU Module was to much for it!
The Dual CPU Module is:
030-1591-002 PM20 2x360MHz R12000A CPU Module w/2MB Secondary Cache per processor
Correct me if I am wrong but my current logic board can not handle that CPU module!
Advice
RE: Damage my Octane :( - weblacky - 12-04-2021
(12-04-2021, 04:46 AM)megaimg Wrote: So I got the second unit working with my first unit Logic Board....
XBOW 1.3
Logic Board 030-0887-005 Rev A
With 1CPU R10K at 195mhz
EMXI Graphic Card
The second unit logic board is the same but Rev B - This one is bad, but has the Dual CPU...Can I move the CPU to the working Logic Board?
The First Unit XOBX 1.2 and that one I think XBOW was unable to handle the power requirement of the 2 CPU when I put it on the logic board.- I think using the 2 CPU Module was to much for it!
The Dual CPU Module is:
030-1591-002 PM20 2x360MHz R12000A CPU Module w/2MB Secondary Cache per processor
Correct me if I am wrong but my current logic board can not handle that CPU module!
Advice
If you read jwhat's response, your Dual CPU is too new. If you check the link I gave you it says anything 030-0887-00x is the old 2GB mainboard. Your CPU is too new!
Also according the Ian's page, yes...you NEED the newer Octane mainboard for your newer DUAL CPU modules:
https://www.sgidepot.co.uk/mfinbow/octane/upgrading.html
RE: Damage my Octane :( - megaimg - 12-06-2021
So it was not the power supply neither the CPU Module...the issue was cause by the MXE card....Apparently had short causing damage to the connector and damaging the Front Panel board....
RE: Damage my Octane :( - soviet - 12-06-2021
Don't feel bad, destroyed my front plane when tried to reassemble the octane drunk.
Sometimes this kind of shit happens, a mistake, and all your rare and hard-to-get hardware is wasted.
RE: Damage my Octane :( - jan-jaap - 12-07-2021
To the best of my knowledge a dual 400MHz R12000 works fine with a 0887 mainboard. Anything faster is dodgy, and all 270MHz CPUs positively require the 1467 mainboard.
I've got a green Octane1 with 0887 mainboard, dual 400MHz R12Ks and MXE graphics myself. Nice little tank, that one.
RE: Damage my Octane :( - megaimg - 12-15-2021
(12-06-2021, 11:40 PM)soviet Wrote: Don't feel bad, destroyed my front plane when tried to reassemble the octane drunk.
Sometimes this kind of shit happens, a mistake, and all your rare and hard-to-get hardware is wasted.
I find out it was a short on the MXI Card that broke the Front Panel....