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octane bricked after failed prom flash - Printable Version

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octane bricked after failed prom flash - zeldakatze - 08-03-2021

Hello everyone,

Some time ago, I tried to install Irix 6.5.30 on an Octane (old revision).
When the installation was finished, I restarted the machine, just before reading the warnings of the install, one being, that the PROM flashing failed.
After the machine restarted,  it looks like it's totally bricked (the front light bar doesn't light up, there is no chime or video output).

I've read that there is a socket on the mainboard for inserting a debug Prom chip, though I don't know where I could get such a chip or the rom image itself.
Otherwise, I could start the Octane from the external PROM and, after it booted, switch to the internal PROM using an external switch wired up to the jumper and reflash it.

I've also got a second Octane, which also doesn't start, but has a working PROM (the lightbar works, at least).

If someone could help me getting this computer running again, I'd really appreciate it.

regards,
zeldakatze

RE: octane bricked after failed prom flash - weblacky - 08-04-2021

I only found one reference to this: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:opYj6mtrTuoJ:https://groups.google.com/forum/%23!msg/comp.sys.sgi.hardware/1jWo_jnYRXQ/T4I3PG7N5oAJ+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I've never heard of this myself, so WOW sorry to hear. I guess my dumb question would be...assuming you have another PROM chip that is the same board revision that works...why not try to clone or flash the bad chip out of circuit? I'm not sure of all the pitfalls but the images are part of the Irix payloads. Can you use them to flash the corrupt chip with an external reader (understanding you may need to desolder the corrupt PROM to even try this). But you could socket the original PROM location as well (unless there is a height restrictions).

Also I was lead to believe...at least on O2...that if you got a flash failure...you don't turn off the system and can try it again and again in the same session. But I've also heard when you try to long-jump versions this can happen. This brings up a great point for systems NOT previously running a later irix versions and getting partially through the PROM history via natural Irix upgrades...just a huge jump.

We should probably share verison and experience info and what version (and intermediate irix versions) people may want to load to selectively jump into the last PROM versions?

Let us know what you end up trying.

RE: octane bricked after failed prom flash - stormy - 08-04-2021

Also just a thought - perhaps your Dallas clock was failing and needs replacing, perhaps it might be related I don't know. But yes I would replace it if it the original.

RE: octane bricked after failed prom flash - Irinikus - 08-04-2021

My Octane2 definitely has a flat Dallas chip, and my PROM flashed perfectly when I installed 6.5.30 on it a few years ago!

RE: octane bricked after failed prom flash - Raion - 08-04-2021

The Dallas chip on the Octane is on the frontplane, in the NIC, not on the mainboard usually.

RE: octane bricked after failed prom flash - soviet - 08-04-2021

The prom chip on the octane is a dip package ?, is socketed ?

RE: octane bricked after failed prom flash - weblacky - 08-04-2021

(08-04-2021, 03:54 PM)soviet Wrote:  The prom chip on the octane is a dip package ?, is socketed ?

No, the PROM EEPROM is a TSSOP package that is soldered onto the board, it just has an empty DIP slot next to it that’s not really documented.  

That cached post was the only info in the debug PROM feature I found.  Apparently that’s how they jump-start the mainboard after manufacturing.  A tech places a chip in the DIP slot, this allowed an “external PROM” to boot (apparently, I have not further evidence of this) and then the tech would flash the primary PROM for the first time and remove the debug PROM.

Well that’s the story anyway.   

But I found nothing on this via Google. Which is why I was stating that desoldering the PROM chip and trying to externally clone another PROM to it might be the answer.  

However, I’ve also not found any record of someone doing that either.

So undocumented territory.

RE: octane bricked after failed prom flash - soviet - 08-04-2021

A lot of maybe's Tongue
Maybe theres a eeprom is an equivalent DIP package of the tssop one ?.
Maybe inserting an eprom on this "empty socket" on a working octane when already booted up, and flashing ?, then using it to start the non working one ?.

RE: octane bricked after failed prom flash - robespierre - 08-04-2021

(08-04-2021, 03:54 PM)soviet Wrote:  The prom chip on the octane is a dip package ?, is socketed ?
The firmware on the Octane is not a PROM chip (no SGI computer uses a PROM chip for firmware, despite the boot environment is called "prom"), it is in a ((TSOP40))* Flash chip beneath the processor module.
If you want to recover a bricked board, the most efficacious means is to rework the chip to remove it and reflash it in an external device programmer.

Edit: actually a TSOP56. It would be interesting to see how the J10 "Select Flash Prom" is wired, if it connects to the Chip Enable pins of the respective sockets. I don't have an Octane so I cannot test this.
It's hard to see how it could be used to bootstrap code into the Flash chip, since the jumper can't be accessed while the machine is on (IP30 board must be completely seated). If the story about factory use is correct, there are only a few possibilities. Either they had card extenders so the IP30 could be used while it stuck all the way out; or, a cable with a switch was fed in somehow to plug onto the jumper; or, the jumper somehow allows reads only from the DIP socket and writes only to the Flash chip.

A more permanent link to the messages from an SGI engineer is here: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.sgi.hardware/c/1jWo_jnYRXQ

RE: octane bricked after failed prom flash - zeldakatze - 08-04-2021

(08-04-2021, 06:41 PM)robespierre Wrote:  
(08-04-2021, 03:54 PM)soviet Wrote:  The prom chip on the octane is a dip package ?, is socketed ?
The firmware on the Octane is not a PROM chip (no SGI computer uses a PROM chip for firmware, despite the boot environment is called "prom"), it is in a TSOP40 Flash chip beneath the processor module.
If you want to recover a bricked board, the most efficacious means is to rework the chip to remove it and reflash it in an external device programmer.
Hello again,

Sorry for needing this long to write a reply.

I can't solder such fine connections, nor do I know someone, that could do something like that for me.

It probably would be easiest if there would be some DIP-Flash chip that would be technically compatible with the TSOP40 and could be solderd on something like a perfboard to be rewired to the DIP socket of the Octane.

I'll try to find the datasheet of the original one and then a Flash chip that's close enough.

regards,
zeldakatze
(08-04-2021, 05:21 PM)soviet Wrote:  A lot of maybe's Tongue
Maybe theres a  eeprom is an equivalent DIP package of the tssop one ?.
Maybe inserting an eprom on this "empty socket" on a working octane when already booted up, and flashing ?, then using it to start the non working one ?.
that was actually my idea, though I first have to get my other Octane working for that.
Do the different revisions of the mainboards matter?